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    Soxillinirob
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    Friday Failure

    Post by Soxillinirob on Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:32 pm

    The first inning tonight is a perfect example of what Floyd did a lot of last season. The DP should have been turned and the Sox should probably not have surrendered any runs in the first. Alexei should have turned the DP, but Alexei didn't then allow next 3 or 4 hitters to drive everyone in with ringing hits all over the field.

    Alexei's error was also like his defense last year....makes all of the tough plays and struggles with some of the simple ones. Still, he's looked pretty impressive at SS this season.

    Ultimately, watching this team trying to get guys home from third base is painful. When Thome came up with the bases loaded and one out, did ANYONE not figure he'd strike out vs. the lefty?
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    jfraser375
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by jfraser375 on Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:44 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:The first inning tonight is a perfect example of what Floyd did a lot of last season. The DP should have been turned and the Sox should probably not have surrendered any runs in the first. Alexei should have turned the DP, but Alexei didn't then allow next 3 or 4 hitters to drive everyone in with ringing hits all over the field.

    Alexei's error was also like his defense last year....makes all of the tough plays and struggles with some of the simple ones. Still, he's looked pretty impressive at SS this season.

    Ultimately, watching this team trying to get guys home from third base is painful. When Thome came up with the bases loaded and one out, did ANYONE not figure he'd strike out vs. the lefty?

    While I do think Floyd has ace potential, you and Roger are right that he doesn't seem able to pitch over mistakes. Maybe he'll get over that, in time. I think I remember Alex Fernandez having a similar problem in his first couple seasons.

    A concern I have about this year's team is that the offense seems to shut down when they fall a few runs behind. Wie'll see what happens tonight.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Nomads44 on Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:12 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:The first inning tonight is a perfect example of what Floyd did a lot of last season. The DP should have been turned and the Sox should probably not have surrendered any runs in the first. Alexei should have turned the DP, but Alexei didn't then allow next 3 or 4 hitters to drive everyone in with ringing hits all over the field.

    Alexei's error was also like his defense last year....makes all of the tough plays and struggles with some of the simple ones. Still, he's looked pretty impressive at SS this season.

    Ultimately, watching this team trying to get guys home from third base is painful. When Thome came up with the bases loaded and one out, did ANYONE not figure he'd strike out vs. the lefty?

    Alexei had 3-4 gaffes tonight. Does the boy need glasses? Is the entire team tired from the road trip? This is disgusting. And while Carlos, not near the gifted outfielder that Anderson is came in and made a nice sliding catch, in the first or second inning (I think maybe leading off the second, there was a line drive to CF that Anderson loped in on and it appeared the ball only hit 5-6 feet in front of him. My problem with Anderson has always been his hustle. Maybe he would have not made the catch, but geez, give it an effort.

    This game is pitiful. It was over from the first inning, and compounded by not tying to get Anderson home on Getz's hit, and I'm sure most of us had this sick feeling that what happened was going to happen. C'mon, boys, show some fire.

    And Floyd letting two guys basically steal 3B before he even threw the pitch.

    SICKENING TO WATCH THIS!! The one game they must have played well this week was on Channel 26. The three I saw this week, we look like a certain last place club. Maybe they should put ALL their games on Channel 26. I'd rather not see them and know they won that watch this Drudgery of tonight again.... no pitching, no defense, no life, and no big hit. And get Alexei's eyes checked. Maybe the wind was making his eyes water.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Nomads44 on Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:14 pm

    jfraser375 wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:The first inning tonight is a perfect example of what Floyd did a lot of last season. The DP should have been turned and the Sox should probably not have surrendered any runs in the first. Alexei should have turned the DP, but Alexei didn't then allow next 3 or 4 hitters to drive everyone in with ringing hits all over the field.

    Alexei's error was also like his defense last year....makes all of the tough plays and struggles with some of the simple ones. Still, he's looked pretty impressive at SS this season.

    Ultimately, watching this team trying to get guys home from third base is painful. When Thome came up with the bases loaded and one out, did ANYONE not figure he'd strike out vs. the lefty?

    While I do think Floyd has ace potential, you and Roger are right that he doesn't seem able to pitch over mistakes. Maybe he'll get over that, in time. I think I remember Alex Fernandez having a similar problem in his first couple seasons.

    A concern I have about this year's team is that the offense seems to shut down when they fall a few runs behind. Wie'll see what happens tonight.


    Right on, Rob, it did.

    This team is liable to see an influx of Beckham and Poreda if things do not improve. I cannot understand why they did not give Beckham more 3B time instead of 2B if they were so darn set on making Alexei the SS. While AR's stroke is coming back, I am very concerned about what I am seeing tonight. Hopefully just his one bad defensive game for the month, but it has been just awful.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Nomads44 on Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:16 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:The first inning tonight is a perfect example of what Floyd did a lot of last season. The DP should have been turned and the Sox should probably not have surrendered any runs in the first. Alexei should have turned the DP, but Alexei didn't then allow next 3 or 4 hitters to drive everyone in with ringing hits all over the field.

    Alexei's error was also like his defense last year....makes all of the tough plays and struggles with some of the simple ones. Still, he's looked pretty impressive at SS this season.

    Ultimately, watching this team trying to get guys home from third base is painful. When Thome came up with the bases loaded and one out, did ANYONE not figure he'd strike out vs. the lefty?

    Alexei had 3-4 gaffes tonight. Does the boy need glasses? Is the entire team tired from the road trip? This is disgusting. And while Carlos, not near the gifted outfielder that Anderson is came in and made a nice sliding catch, in the first or second inning (I think maybe leading off the second, there was a line drive to CF that Anderson loped in on and it appeared the ball only hit 5-6 feet in front of him. My problem with Anderson has always been his hustle. Maybe he would have not made the catch, but geez, give it an effort.

    This game is pitiful. It was over from the first inning, and compounded by not tying to get Anderson home on Getz's hit, and I'm sure most of us had this sick feeling that what happened was going to happen. C'mon, boys, show some fire.

    And Floyd letting two guys basically steal 3B before he even threw the pitch.

    SICKENING TO WATCH THIS!! The one game they must have played well this week was on Channel 26. The three I saw this week, we look like a certain last place club. Maybe they should put ALL their games on Channel 26. I'd rather not see them and know they won that watch this Drudgery of tonight again.... no pitching, no defense, no life, and no big hit. And get Alexei's eyes checked. Maybe the wind was making his eyes water.

    Geez, he just kicked another one in the hole!
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Soxillinirob on Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:14 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:
    Geez, he just kicked another one in the hole!

    Maybe the guy will turn out to be a Gold Glover there at SS, but this is what I was commenting on before the season, along with Sharpy....the guy makes a lot of miscues. There's no doubt he's a HUGE talent. His range and arm are incredible from what I can see with just my eyes. But then the boots some simple plays. I'll give him a little leeway on the low throw from Egbert on the potential double play. I still suspect Alexei will make 25-30 errors at SS this year. I just hope he can play with good range so that I can compare him to Valentin all summer long.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by alohafri on Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:57 am

    This seemed to be one of those momentum games. Toronto got the early momentum thanks to a miscue in the first (which I missed...I picked a good time to mow the lawn), and never gave it up. You are right though. It seems like if they get to be more than two runs down, the offense shuts down.

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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Guest on Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:38 pm

    [quote="Nomads44"]
    Soxillinirob wrote:The first inning tonight is a perfect example of what Floyd did a lot of last season. The DP should have been turned and the Sox should probably not have surrendered any runs in the first. Alexei should have turned the DP, but Alexei didn't then allow next 3 or 4 hitters to drive everyone in with ringing hits all over the field.

    Alexei's error was also like his defense last year....makes all of the tough plays and struggles with some of the simple ones. Still, he's looked pretty impressive at SS this season.

    Ultimately, watching this team trying to get guys home from third base is painful. When Thome came up with the bases loaded and one out, did ANYONE not figure he'd strike out vs. the lefty?

    Alexei had 3-4 gaffes tonight. Does the boy need glasses? Is the entire team tired from the road trip? This is disgusting. And while Carlos, not near the gifted outfielder that Anderson is came in and made a nice sliding catch, in the first or second inning (I think maybe leading off the second, there was a line drive to CF that Anderson loped in on and it appeared the ball only hit 5-6 feet in front of him. My problem with Anderson has always been his hustle. Maybe he would have not made the catch, but geez, give it an effort.

    This game is pitiful. It was over from the first inning, and compounded by not tying to get Anderson home on Getz's hit, and I'm sure most of us had this sick feeling that what happened was going to happen. C'mon, boys, show some fire.

    And Floyd letting two guys basically steal 3B before he even threw the pitch.

    SICKENING TO WATCH THIS!! The one game they must have played well this week was on Channel 26. The three I saw this week, we look like a certain last place club. Maybe they should put ALL their games on Channel 26. I'd rather not see them and know they won that watch this Drudgery of tonight again.... no pitching, no defense, no life, and no big hit. And get Alexei's eyes checked. Maybe the wind was making his eyes water.






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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Guest on Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:22 pm

    I think the concerns a lot of us had before the season started are actually coming to fruition. Getz has exceeded expectations, but get back to me after he has been thru the league one time and scouts have seen him ..Fields average is down near .250, and I don't see the ball flying out of the yard ...my concerns about Quentin's wrist have not been eased. I believe it was Nomads who pointed out the difficulty of coming back from a wrist injury first, and frankly, I don't think Quentin is back yet ...Thome is off to his usually slow start, and Konerko is having his good half this half...Some think Floyd is an ace ..I think he's a 10-12 game winner max on a regular basis ....and finally, Beckham should be as SS and Ramirez should be in CF. Get that lazy ass'd Anderson back on the bench, or in another organization, ASAP
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Soxillinirob on Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:42 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:I think the concerns a lot of us had before the season started are actually coming to fruition. Getz has exceeded expectations, but get back to me after he has been thru the league one time and scouts have seen him ..Fields average is down near .250, and I don't see the ball flying out of the yard ...my concerns about Quentin's wrist have not been eased. I believe it was Nomads who pointed out the difficulty of coming back from a wrist injury first, and frankly, I don't think Quentin is back yet ...Thome is off to his usually slow start, and Konerko is having his good half this half...Some think Floyd is an ace ..I think he's a 10-12 game winner max on a regular basis ....and finally, Beckham should be as SS and Ramirez should be in CF. Get that lazy ass'd Anderson back on the bench, or in another organization, ASAP

    Quentin seems fine to me. I'm seeing him struggling with his timing and his strike zone judgment so far. When he's actually on a pitch, he's crushing it.

    I can't see Floyd as ever being ace material, mostly because he's a guy that'll be very hittable every third or fourth start, when he can't get his curve over. As he matures, he may get more command. In a way, he may end up being very much like Buehrle in terms of how Mark seems to just not have his stuff every 3rd, 4th or 5th start. And until Floyd learns a bit more about holding runners, every base hit is going to be like giving up a double, unless he can get Johnny Bench to come out of retirement and throw out some runners.

    I definitely see why you're frustrated with Anderson, despite his inspired hitting as of late. I can't put a finger on it, though. I don't think he's so much lazy and perhaps mentally lazy. I don't think seems like a guy that puts much thought into what he's doing. That's just a perception...I could be totally wrong. He's a very good centerfielder on balls in the air. I'm not sure what in the hell he's doing on grounders and bloopers and gappers. The ability is there, but he seems like his deck is short a few cards or something.

    Hmmm, Beckam at SS and Alexei in CF...now that's a song I like. Beckam has come down to earth at AAA. I think we'll see him sometime in May, after he can be brought up without losing a year of service time. For now, I'm ok with seeing if Anderson can keep hitting and get his head out of his rump in the outfield.

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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by RJL5917 on Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:56 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:Hmmm, Beckam at SS and Alexei in CF...now that's a song I like. Beckam has come down to earth at AAA. I think we'll see him sometime in May, after he can be brought up without losing a year of service time. For now, I'm ok with seeing if Anderson can keep hitting and get his head out of his rump in the outfield.[/b][/color]

    Beckham is at AA Birmingham. I don't think he'll be up any time before September unless there are injuries. He made his 6th error last night which led to two runs and the 4-3 loss. (He did have a couple doubles last night, and his average is back over .300.) He just needs to play without the "Messiah" tag labeled on him. Bringing him up now or soon would probably prove to be a mistake.

    More than likely, the decisions that will have to be made after this season will be obvious. Maybe Dye and Thome will both be gone, and either Getz or Beckham moves to LF, and Quentin to RF. Maybe Ramirez gets traded. Maybe Getz has some good trade value, and Beckham moves into 2B in 2010. They will have a lot of options- and that's a good thing.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by jfraser375 on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:12 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    Chi-kid wrote:I think the concerns a lot of us had before the season started are actually coming to fruition. Getz has exceeded expectations, but get back to me after he has been thru the league one time and scouts have seen him ..Fields average is down near .250, and I don't see the ball flying out of the yard ...my concerns about Quentin's wrist have not been eased. I believe it was Nomads who pointed out the difficulty of coming back from a wrist injury first, and frankly, I don't think Quentin is back yet ...Thome is off to his usually slow start, and Konerko is having his good half this half...Some think Floyd is an ace ..I think he's a 10-12 game winner max on a regular basis ....and finally, Beckham should be as SS and Ramirez should be in CF. Get that lazy ass'd Anderson back on the bench, or in another organization, ASAP

    Quentin seems fine to me. I'm seeing him struggling with his timing and his strike zone judgment so far. When he's actually on a pitch, he's crushing it.

    I can't see Floyd as ever being ace material, mostly because he's a guy that'll be very hittable every third or fourth start, when he can't get his curve over. As he matures, he may get more command. In a way, he may end up being very much like Buehrle in terms of how Mark seems to just not have his stuff every 3rd, 4th or 5th start. And until Floyd learns a bit more about holding runners, every base hit is going to be like giving up a double, unless he can get Johnny Bench to come out of retirement and throw out some runners.

    I definitely see why you're frustrated with Anderson, despite his inspired hitting as of late. I can't put a finger on it, though. I don't think he's so much lazy and perhaps mentally lazy. I don't think seems like a guy that puts much thought into what he's doing. That's just a perception...I could be totally wrong. He's a very good centerfielder on balls in the air. I'm not sure what in the hell he's doing on grounders and bloopers and gappers. The ability is there, but he seems like his deck is short a few cards or something.

    Hmmm, Beckam at SS and Alexei in CF...now that's a song I like. Beckam has come down to earth at AAA. I think we'll see him sometime in May, after he can be brought up without losing a year of service time. For now, I'm ok with seeing if Anderson can keep hitting and get his head out of his rump in the outfield.

    We haven't seen much of Ramirez in center; just a few games early last year. I doubt that his overall fielding out there would be better than Anderson's. Looks to me that Anderson is the best centerfield option in the entire organization. I haven't heard about any good centerfielder coming up in the minors. I'm not promoting Anderson, just pointing out the sorry facts.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Soxillinirob on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:54 am

    jfraser375 wrote:
    We haven't seen much of Ramirez in center; just a few games early last year. I doubt that his overall fielding out there would be better than Anderson's. Looks to me that Anderson is the best centerfield option in the entire organization. I haven't heard about any good centerfielder coming up in the minors. I'm not promoting Anderson, just pointing out the sorry facts.

    The few games I saw of him in CF were excellent. Hard to tell from just that. Perhaps he struggles with going near the wall or going straight back on the ball or a number of other things. But the few times I saw him in CF, my thought was along the lines of "wow, this guy can really play this position!" I generally base that thought on footwork and route to the ball, and how easily the guy seems to track the ball. We all know he has the arm for CF, and then some. I tend to think you'd be surprised at how capable he'd be out there, unless he has some negatives that I couldn't see in the few games I saw him out there.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by jfraser375 on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:31 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    jfraser375 wrote:
    We haven't seen much of Ramirez in center; just a few games early last year. I doubt that his overall fielding out there would be better than Anderson's. Looks to me that Anderson is the best centerfield option in the entire organization. I haven't heard about any good centerfielder coming up in the minors. I'm not promoting Anderson, just pointing out the sorry facts.

    The few games I saw of him in CF were excellent. Hard to tell from just that. Perhaps he struggles with going near the wall or going straight back on the ball or a number of other things. But the few times I saw him in CF, my thought was along the lines of "wow, this guy can really play this position!" I generally base that thought on footwork and route to the ball, and how easily the guy seems to track the ball. We all know he has the arm for CF, and then some. I tend to think you'd be surprised at how capable he'd be out there, unless he has some negatives that I couldn't see in the few games I saw him out there.

    What worries me is that Anderson's fielding impressed the hell out of us early on,t oo.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Nomads44 on Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:21 am

    jfraser375 wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:
    jfraser375 wrote:
    We haven't seen much of Ramirez in center; just a few games early last year. I doubt that his overall fielding out there would be better than Anderson's. Looks to me that Anderson is the best centerfield option in the entire organization. I haven't heard about any good centerfielder coming up in the minors. I'm not promoting Anderson, just pointing out the sorry facts.

    The few games I saw of him in CF were excellent. Hard to tell from just that. Perhaps he struggles with going near the wall or going straight back on the ball or a number of other things. But the few times I saw him in CF, my thought was along the lines of "wow, this guy can really play this position!" I generally base that thought on footwork and route to the ball, and how easily the guy seems to track the ball. We all know he has the arm for CF, and then some. I tend to think you'd be surprised at how capable he'd be out there, unless he has some negatives that I couldn't see in the few games I saw him out there.

    What worries me is that Anderson's fielding impressed the hell out of us early on,t oo.

    I think the opposite may be true for me. I expected a lot more based on the five tool, great defensive CFer label that he had when he came to us. On balls in the air, like Rob said, he showed good grace and jump and speed and reminded me of our early Sammy Sosa "Panther" days roaming CF. He seemed to be able to run down long drives. But it did not take long for him to really tick me off. But, again, like Rob says, that seems "attitude" and hustle for things that he cannot showboat. When he does blow one - judging fly balls, or just something he knows he cannot get, he just kind of lopes after it. That's when I REALLY want to see that hustle, when he is making amends for a gaffe, not sulking while he goes to retrieve it. A couple nights ago, IMHO, he badly misjudged a ball that I was surprised I think it was Floyd did not turn around and just glare at him. I think he did give him a bit of a look, but one had to be looking for that look.

    If they can find someone as good or better and someone thinks they can get the best out of Anderson, then, surprisingly, it is fine with me. What surprises me a bit is how Hawk says he is so popular with his teammates. Are they not seeing his lackadaisacal attitude? I think Ozzie has seen it which is why he seems to have been in the doghouse so often.

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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Guest on Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:24 am

    Anderson might be pulling his head out of his ass, finally.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Soxillinirob on Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:55 pm

    jfraser375 wrote:

    What worries me is that Anderson's fielding impressed the hell out of us early on,t oo.

    I'm still impressed by his fielding, with a few caveats.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by TeleFrank on Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:50 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:Maybe they should put ALL their games on Channel 26.


    No profit in that Nomad. You do know the Sox, Cubs,Bulls and Hawk's all own a piece of Comcast Sports Net. Cutting out the middle man for more profit. Some Cub fans are still whining about the fact that most of the games are on Comcast. Sox fans are use to having to look for the games.

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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by Guest on Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:40 pm

    More than likely, the decisions that will have to be made after this season will be obvious. Maybe Dye and Thome will both be gone, and either Getz or Beckham moves to LF, and Quentin to RF.



    Why would you take 2 players who never played the outfield before, one who is likely never to hit enough to be an outfielder, esp. a corner outfielder, when you can move the Cuban national team All star CFer to the outfield and keep the infielders in the infield?

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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by RJL5917 on Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:55 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:More than likely, the decisions that will have to be made after this season will be obvious. Maybe Dye and Thome will both be gone, and either Getz or Beckham moves to LF, and Quentin to RF.



    Why would you take 2 players who never played the outfield before, one who is likely never to hit enough to be an outfielder, esp. a corner outfielder, when you can move the Cuban national team All star CFer to the outfield and keep the infielders in the infield?

    That may happen too, but Beckham isn't exactly a great defensive SS. If Alexei proves to be as great as he is supposed to be at SS, I don't see how you could move him.

    Getz did play 15 games in LF for Charlotte in 2008, but I agree that would be an unlikely move. Like I said, the decisions they'll have to make will probably be obvious by the end of the year. It will probably end up with Beckham staying in the middle infield. Who knows, maybe Brian Anderson finally will claim CF, and they won't want to move Alexei there too.
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    Re: Friday Failure

    Post by jfraser375 on Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:28 pm

    RJL5917 wrote:
    Chi-kid wrote:More than likely, the decisions that will have to be made after this season will be obvious. Maybe Dye and Thome will both be gone, and either Getz or Beckham moves to LF, and Quentin to RF.



    Why would you take 2 players who never played the outfield before, one who is likely never to hit enough to be an outfielder, esp. a corner outfielder, when you can move the Cuban national team All star CFer to the outfield and keep the infielders in the infield?

    That may happen too, but Beckham isn't exactly a great defensive SS. If Alexei proves to be as great as he is supposed to be at SS, I don't see how you could move him.

    Getz did play 15 games in LF for Charlotte in 2008, but I agree that would be an unlikely move. Like I said, the decisions they'll have to make will probably be obvious by the end of the year. It will probably end up with Beckham staying in the middle infield. Who knows, maybe Brian Anderson finally will claim CF, and they won't want to move Alexei there too.

    I wouldn't rule out a free agent pickup or a trade. Someone coming off an injury. KW has had pretty good success with Quentin, Dye and Thome, all marked down in value because of injuries.

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