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    K is king

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    jaywit
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    K is king

    Post by jaywit on Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:03 pm

    I've seen maybe 3 innings total of the Sox this year but just looked at their stats.  I'm not missing much.  As a team, they have nearly 200 more strikeouts than hits.  Of their 10 players with the most at-bats, 7 have more than 100 strikeouts.  If you projected others to 500 at-bats, several of them easily pass 100 strikeouts.  At least when you hit the ball, you make the other team make a play.  If Roger's out there somewhere, where do the Sox stand in scoring unearned runs?


    If Nolan Ryan or Bob Gibson pitched in today's game, would they be closing in on 10,000 Ks?
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    alohafri
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    Re: K is king

    Post by alohafri on Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:30 pm

    jaywit wrote:I've seen maybe 3 innings total of the Sox this year but just looked at their stats.  I'm not missing much.  As a team, they have nearly 200 more strikeouts than hits.  Of their 10 players with the most at-bats, 7 have more than 100 strikeouts.  If you projected others to 500 at-bats, several of them easily pass 100 strikeouts.  At least when you hit the ball, you make the other team make a play.  If Roger's out there somewhere, where do the Sox stand in scoring unearned runs?


    If Nolan Ryan or Bob Gibson pitched in today's game, would they be closing in on 10,000 Ks?

    Jay, it's ridiculous across the league. Strikeouts are practically encouraged with these stupid "stats" of launch angle and exit velocity. You know what those encourage? Swing hard with an upper cut. Chicks dig the long ball!
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    jaywit
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    Re: K is king

    Post by jaywit on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:50 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    jaywit wrote:I've seen maybe 3 innings total of the Sox this year but just looked at their stats.  I'm not missing much.  As a team, they have nearly 200 more strikeouts than hits.  Of their 10 players with the most at-bats, 7 have more than 100 strikeouts.  If you projected others to 500 at-bats, several of them easily pass 100 strikeouts.  At least when you hit the ball, you make the other team make a play.  If Roger's out there somewhere, where do the Sox stand in scoring unearned runs?


    If Nolan Ryan or Bob Gibson pitched in today's game, would they be closing in on 10,000 Ks?

    Jay, it's ridiculous across the league. Strikeouts are practically encouraged with these stupid "stats" of launch angle and exit velocity. You know what those encourage? Swing hard with an upper cut. Chicks dig the long ball!
    Agreed.  New age baseball probably ruined some careers along the way.  Guys like Gordon Beckham kept that big loopy swing going for the long ball.  He may have stayed in the majors longer if he stayed within his comfort zone.  A good middle infielder with a .260 contact hitting average would be valuable to some clubs.
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    rmapasad
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    Re: K is king

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:06 pm

    jaywit wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    jaywit wrote:I've seen maybe 3 innings total of the Sox this year but just looked at their stats.  I'm not missing much.  As a team, they have nearly 200 more strikeouts than hits.  Of their 10 players with the most at-bats, 7 have more than 100 strikeouts.  If you projected others to 500 at-bats, several of them easily pass 100 strikeouts.  At least when you hit the ball, you make the other team make a play.  If Roger's out there somewhere, where do the Sox stand in scoring unearned runs?


    If Nolan Ryan or Bob Gibson pitched in today's game, would they be closing in on 10,000 Ks?

    Jay, it's ridiculous across the league. Strikeouts are practically encouraged with these stupid "stats" of launch angle and exit velocity. You know what those encourage? Swing hard with an upper cut. Chicks dig the long ball!
    Agreed.  New age baseball probably ruined some careers along the way.  Guys like Gordon Beckham kept that big loopy swing going for the long ball.  He may have stayed in the majors longer if he stayed within his comfort zone.  A good middle infielder with a .260 contact hitting average would be valuable to some clubs.

    Sox have by far the highest K rate of any AL team, are third worst in league BB% and lead the AL in % of out of zone pitches swung at and whiffing on those pitches. So 2018 has continued the Sox tradition of guys with poor plate discipline.   Not sure that uppercutting to hit HR's is the main culprit though.  If that's been the Sox strategy. it hasn't worked as they are mediocre in HR's.  Guys like Moncada, Engel, Leury, Sanchez who aren't HR hitters have way too many K's.  This front office, unlike Boston, Yankees, Cleveland and Oakland, has never paid that much attention to guys' strike zone judgment.   8 guys with more than 100 AB's have BOTH below average K and BB rates.  
    As to Beckham, he has blamed tinkering with his mechanics too much for his lack of success.  While that's true, his subpar plate discipline sucked. 
    He had his highest BB rate and lowest out of zone swing % in his ROOKIE season.  Guys are supposed to improve those things as they get older not get worse.  This season the light bulb must have finally gone on in AAA as he had the lowest K rate and highest BB rate of his career and hit over .300.  But this was short-lived.  When he got called to the Mariners he went back to his old ways and hit .206.    I just think Gordo was the poster boy for dumb.
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    alohafri
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    Re: K is king

    Post by alohafri on Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:04 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    jaywit wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    jaywit wrote:I've seen maybe 3 innings total of the Sox this year but just looked at their stats.  I'm not missing much.  As a team, they have nearly 200 more strikeouts than hits.  Of their 10 players with the most at-bats, 7 have more than 100 strikeouts.  If you projected others to 500 at-bats, several of them easily pass 100 strikeouts.  At least when you hit the ball, you make the other team make a play.  If Roger's out there somewhere, where do the Sox stand in scoring unearned runs?


    If Nolan Ryan or Bob Gibson pitched in today's game, would they be closing in on 10,000 Ks?

    Jay, it's ridiculous across the league. Strikeouts are practically encouraged with these stupid "stats" of launch angle and exit velocity. You know what those encourage? Swing hard with an upper cut. Chicks dig the long ball!
    Agreed.  New age baseball probably ruined some careers along the way.  Guys like Gordon Beckham kept that big loopy swing going for the long ball.  He may have stayed in the majors longer if he stayed within his comfort zone.  A good middle infielder with a .260 contact hitting average would be valuable to some clubs.

    Sox have by far the highest K rate of any AL team, are third worst in league BB% and lead the AL in % of out of zone pitches swung at and whiffing on those pitches. So 2018 has continued the Sox tradition of guys with poor plate discipline.   Not sure that uppercutting to hit HR's is the main culprit though.  If that's been the Sox strategy. it hasn't worked as they are mediocre in HR's.  Guys like Moncada, Engel, Leury, Sanchez who aren't HR hitters have way too many K's.  This front office, unlike Boston, Yankees, Cleveland and Oakland, has never paid that much attention to guys' strike zone judgment.   8 guys with more than 100 AB's have BOTH below average K and BB rates.  
    As to Beckham, he has blamed tinkering with his mechanics too much for his lack of success.  While that's true, his subpar plate discipline sucked. 
    He had his highest BB rate and lowest out of zone swing % in his ROOKIE season.  Guys are supposed to improve those things as they get older not get worse.  This season the light bulb must have finally gone on in AAA as he had the lowest K rate and highest BB rate of his career and hit over .300.  But this was short-lived.  When he got called to the Mariners he went back to his old ways and hit .206.    I just think Gordo was the poster boy for dumb.

    Too many guys on one team with the same issue. Tell me it's not coaching. Tell me that everyone the Sox draft is dumb.
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    Jack Brickhouse
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    Re: K is king

    Post by Jack Brickhouse on Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:46 am

    Except you have NO FUCKING IDEA what these coaches actually do!!


    Play the Chicago Fanboy role!!


    Blame COACHES!!


    Murph blames DARRYL BOSTON!!


    You have placed yourself in the company of pure GENIUS!!
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    alohafri
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    Re: K is king

    Post by alohafri on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:21 pm

    Jack Brickhouse wrote:Except you have NO FUCKING IDEA what these coaches actually do!!


    Play the Chicago Fanboy role!!


    Blame COACHES!!


    Murph blames DARRYL BOSTON!!


    You have placed yourself in the company of pure GENIUS!!

    Then let's just keep every fucking coach on the payroll until they die GENIUS! Renteria? Brilliant! Steverson? Best mind since fucking Einstein! Cooper? He's so much more than a buffet breaker!
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    alohafri
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    Re: K is king

    Post by alohafri on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:34 pm

    Look. My point is this. Yes, the players deserve much of the responsibility. Probably most of it. The onus is on them. But what are the chances that seemingly most of the players on one team are free swingers and have no knowledge of the strike zone? Is this something being taught throughout the organization? "Hey, swing hard, swing for the fences, swing at everything." If it is, don't you think a change is in order? If you are okay with players striking out 200 times, then maybe you don't care. I'd rather see guys who make contact with singles and doubles. Hell, I'd rather see ground balls and fly outs because there's always a chance to move the runner. But that's me. 


    I don't know. Maybe every player on the White Sox since Frank Thomas has been a complete moron and won't listen to coaching because it won't get them on ESPN.
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    alohafri
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    Re: K is king

    Post by alohafri on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:35 pm

    Jack Brickhouse wrote:Except you have NO FUCKING IDEA what these coaches actually do!!

     
    Yes I do! They hit the buffet with Cooper!
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    Jack Brickhouse
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    Re: K is king

    Post by Jack Brickhouse on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:57 pm

    Strikeouts have been rising for years in the absolute BORE that MLB has become.
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    alohafri
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    Re: K is king

    Post by alohafri on Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 pm

    Jack Brickhouse wrote:Strikeouts have been rising for years in the absolute BORE that MLB has become.

    Why do you think I watch more reruns of NCIS than baseball games these days?
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    joepoe
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    Re: K is king

    Post by joepoe on Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:36 am

    "swing hard in case you hit it" seems to be the philosophy the past few years.
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    jaywit
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    Re: K is king

    Post by jaywit on Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:04 pm

    Where have you gone Glenn Beckert?  The nation turns it's lonely eyes to you.
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    rmapasad
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    Re: K is king

    Post by rmapasad on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:54 am

    alohafri wrote:Look. My point is this. Yes, the players deserve much of the responsibility. Probably most of it. The onus is on them. But what are the chances that seemingly most of the players on one team are free swingers and have no knowledge of the strike zone? Is this something being taught throughout the organization? "Hey, swing hard, swing for the fences, swing at everything." If it is, don't you think a change is in order? If you are okay with players striking out 200 times, then maybe you don't care. I'd rather see guys who make contact with singles and doubles. Hell, I'd rather see ground balls and fly outs because there's always a chance to move the runner. But that's me. 


    I don't know. Maybe every player on the White Sox since Frank Thomas has been a complete moron and won't listen to coaching because it won't get them on ESPN.

    I think it's been a mindset in the organization that goes back to Kenny Williams who favored athleticism (raw power or speed) over baseball skills.  That reflected in the guys he picked up (Garcias, Tank, his first round picks like Hawkins, Walker, etc)  and also the minor league coaches not stressing plate discipline.  Tim Anderson came to the majors with zero clue of the strike zone.  



    For some while Hahn also seemed oblivious to strikeouts provided the guy draws BB's (Davidson, Delmonico, Zach Collins, Moncada).  Most recently he appears to put more premium on contact hitting (Madrigal).  Jiminez and Burger aren't huge K guys for being power hitters.

    As much as I argued with Kark about keeping Avi Garcia before 2017 season, I think the Sox should seriously consider non-tendering him for 2019 now that he will be $ 7 mil to keep.  Have seen enough of his hacking and constant injuries.  Install Jiminez as the RFer and let him run with the job for the next 7 years.   

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