Nomadsfest Sox Fans

A forum for the old AOL board Sox fans and others.


    WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Share

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by Guest on Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:26 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    Jack Brickhouse wrote:What does Howie think?
    What about Murph?


    HERE WHAT A POSTER ON PRIDE AND PASSION THINKS:

    Is it just me or does it seems like prospects we always have need to so called “develop” but prospects on other teams come up and produce.?.?. Idk if it’s just me or what

    Looks like the KARK isn't alone with the thought that the #1 prospect in all of baseball should not be striking out 40% of the time and should have a batting average north of 240

    Gee, I wonder how many others will be falsely accused of spanking it to a Ryan Howard baseball card just because they fear Yoan Moncado and Lucas Giolito could be the new Gordon Beckham and Scott Ruffcorn.  Not that the KARK would Chase Utley either of these two out of town.  But if the magical 2020 year is another 90+ loss season.....

    Look, I'm concerned about Moncada's 34% K rate.  It's a big red flag.  Far more guys with K rates over 30% at ages 22-23 end up like Rymer Liriano or Leury Garcia than Kris Bryant.   But Bryant brought his K rate down from 31% to 22% the next year.   Moncada does something similar he's suddenly a 277/350/477 hitter.  But the Sox can't sit idly by and just hope that he'll learn how to put bat on ball better. They need to get him to work on that in the offseason.  Plus I still don't think his glovework at 2b has been that good and the Sox need to start doing something about that NOW.  
    As to Giolito, looking back at pitchers who were as bad as he's been at ages 23-24, that is also a discouraging list.  It was at least a 5-1 failure/success ratio and the best starting pitcher out of the 60 that most resembled Giolito's FIP at that age was Gavin Floyd.  OTOH, a few really bad starters at that age (Joe Nathan, Eric Gagne) converted into successful relievers and that may be Gioloto's fate too . 

    Yeah, the true studs usually come out of the gate faster than those two so blowing any false sunshine up in anyone's ass about them is pointless.  Sox fans have suffered through enough wishful thinking by Mgmt for the last 10 years and so overrating this crop of prospects would be yet another cruel hoax. OTOH, the sheer volume of decent prospects the Sox have by law of averages might help make this rebuild work. Not everyone has to be a star if the team ends up with a good quantity of above average players.  However, to avoid the wishful thinking disease,  it's best to acknowledge  a prospect's problems early on and work on them, rather than just thinking time and experience will automatically mature them into better players.


    This sin't directed at you, but it is not my contention that the rebuild won't work.  Nor is it my contention that it should have never been started.  Nor is it my contention it should be abandoned.


    As for 2018, my hope was that Anderson and Moncada could emerge as the new Whittaker and Trammell.  They still might, but 2018 is my like Daryl Boston and Rob Deer,  I also hoped that Avisail Garcia would prove himself for real instead of proving himself fragile.  And right about now, I was hoping Eloy Jiminez would have proven himself ready for a call up.  So if this optomistic scenario, OUR White Sox would have started the 2019 with half the lineup rebuilt already.  However, now 2019 looks like the same unanswered questions from 2018 with an extra year of doubt added.


    Yes, committing to a quality farm filled with prospects is a good thing that should eventually pay off.  But there is no denying that first wave of the rebuild is not looking quite as good as it did a year ago.  A lot has to go right between now and next year if 2020 is suppose to be the triumphvant return of OUR White Sox.  Realistically, we are now probably looking at 2022.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by Guest on Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:28 am

    Plus I still don't think his glovework at 2b has been that good and the Sox need to start doing something about that NOW. 


    ********************************


    Like moving him to 3B and letting Yolmer Sanchez prove himself at 2B considering he is leading the team in batting average and is probably the only everyday player living up to his capabilities
    avatar
    rmapasad
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 2862
    Join date : 2009-04-06
    Location : Northridge, CA

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:54 pm

    Guest wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    Jack Brickhouse wrote:What does Howie think?
    What about Murph?


    HERE WHAT A POSTER ON PRIDE AND PASSION THINKS:

    Is it just me or does it seems like prospects we always have need to so called “develop” but prospects on other teams come up and produce.?.?. Idk if it’s just me or what

     Plus I still don't  I also hoped that Avisail Garcia would prove himself for real instead of proving himself fragile.  And right about now, I was hoping Eloy Jiminez would have proven himself ready for a call up.  So if this optomistic scenario, OUR White Sox would have started the 2019 with half the lineup rebuilt already.  However, now 2019 looks like the same unanswered questions from 2018 with an extra year of doubt added.
    Yes, committing to a quality farm filled with prospects is a good thing that should eventually pay off.  But there is no denying that first wave of the rebuild is not looking quite as good as it did a year ago.  A lot has to go right between now and next year if 2020 is suppose to be the triumphvant return of OUR White Sox.  Realistically, we are now probably looking at 2022.


    Jiminez is destroying AAA (.367 BA) and should be up sometime soon.  Robert's rehab in Arizona went well and his limited stats so far this year suggest he's on track to get back to A+ ball in the very near future.  Kopech has settled down on the BB's the last month or so and has been dominant otherwise.
    Madrigal is hitting over .300 in A+ ball.  He's not striking out much, which is good.  He's not walking much either or hitting for power yet.   But so far, so good. Cease and Dunning are also doing fine.
    Sox fans can't take much solace in what is going on at the major league level, but the top prospects so far haven't tripped over their dicks in the minors.
    avatar
    Jack Brickhouse
    Silent Hot Dog Vendor

    Posts : 1052
    Join date : 2014-04-03

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by Jack Brickhouse on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:28 pm

    MONCADA SURE SUCKS!!!
    avatar
    rmapasad
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 2862
    Join date : 2009-04-06
    Location : Northridge, CA

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:32 pm

    Jack Brickhouse wrote:MONCADA SURE SUCKS!!!


    He has in one category - strikeouts.  They've killed his Bat Avg. as he strikeouts 1/3 of his PA's.   But there's another side to this.
    I looked at all 2bmen since 1983 and then compared how they did at age 23 (Moncada's current) in 5 categories  - Power, BB's, K's, BA off Balls in Play, and Defense. When all 5 categories were combined Moncada ranked 8th of 65 players at age 23.   This puts him in the company of other age 23 top 10 players like Cano, Pedroia,  Alomar, Knoblauch, Baerga, Easley, Marcus Giles. There were only 2 busts in that top 10 category - Jerry Browne and Dustin Ackley.   [size=16]So the chances that Moncada will amount to something are still pretty decent. Worth noting that three other 2bmen ranked much worse than Moncada at age 23 - Sandberg, Durham and Altuve. (all ranked in the 40's). It's too soon to be worrying excessively about him.  [size=16]That said, M[size=16]oncada will have to cut his strikeouts down by 40-50% or he won't be the future star the Sox were hoping for when they got him in the Chris Sale trade.   [/size][/size][/size]
    avatar
    jaywit
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 3645
    Join date : 2009-04-05
    Age : 58
    Location : Spokane, WA

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by jaywit on Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:44 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    Jack Brickhouse wrote:MONCADA SURE SUCKS!!!


    He has in one category - strikeouts.  They've killed his Bat Avg. as he strikeouts 1/3 of his PA's.   But there's another side to this.
    I looked at all 2bmen since 1983 and then compared how they did at age 23 (Moncada's current) in 5 categories  - Power, BB's, K's, BA off Balls in Play, and Defense. When all 5 categories were combined Moncada ranked 8th of 65 players at age 23.   This puts him in the company of other age 23 top 10 players like Cano, Pedroia,  Alomar, Knoblauch, Baerga, Easley, Marcus Giles. There were only 2 busts in that top 10 category - Jerry Browne and Dustin Ackley.   [size=16]So the chances that Moncada will amount to something are still pretty decent. Worth noting that three other 2bmen ranked much worse than Moncada at age 23 - Sandberg, Durham and Altuve. (all ranked in the 40's). It's too soon to be worrying excessively about him.  [size=16]That said, M[size=16]oncada will have to cut his strikeouts down by 40-50% or he won't be the future star the Sox were hoping for when they got him in the Chris Sale trade.   [/size][/size][/size]
    Since 1983, how many 23 year olds that strikeout 1/3rd of all plate appearances have been able to reduce that by 40-50%?
    avatar
    rmapasad
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 2862
    Join date : 2009-04-06
    Location : Northridge, CA

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:37 pm

    jaywit wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    Jack Brickhouse wrote:MONCADA SURE SUCKS!!!


    He has in one category - strikeouts.  They've killed his Bat Avg. as he strikeouts 1/3 of his PA's.   But there's another side to this.
    I looked at all 2bmen since 1983 and then compared how they did at age 23 (Moncada's current) in 5 categories  - Power, BB's, K's, BA off Balls in Play, and Defense. When all 5 categories were combined Moncada ranked 8th of 65 players at age 23.   This puts him in the company of other age 23 top 10 players like Cano, Pedroia,  Alomar, Knoblauch, Baerga, Easley, Marcus Giles. There were only 2 busts in that top 10 category - Jerry Browne and Dustin Ackley.   [size=16]So the chances that Moncada will amount to something are still pretty decent. Worth noting that three other 2bmen ranked much worse than Moncada at age 23 - Sandberg, Durham and Altuve. (all ranked in the 40's). It's too soon to be worrying excessively about him.  [size=16]That said, M[size=16]oncada will have to cut his strikeouts down by 40-50% or he won't be the future star the Sox were hoping for when they got him in the Chris Sale trade.   [/size][/size][/size]
    Since 1983, how many 23 year olds that strikeout 1/3rd of all plate appearances have been able to reduce that by 40-50%?

    Good question. Short answer - no one at his level of K's at ages 22-23 has cut it by that much.  I over-stated the amount of improvement needed.  
    Only a small handful of guys have cut it by 40%, Luis Gonzalez and Frank Thomas being the most prominent.  However, they were starting at a much lower age 22-23 K level (18%) so cutting 40% off it was a lot easier than Moncada who is at 33-34%.  Of those who were at near Moncada's lofty 30%+ K rate at ages 22-23, the namebrand cutters were McGriff, Kris Bryant, and Jay Buhner although their cuts were only by 30%..  That's a more realistic goal for Moncada - cut his K's by 1/3.
    He could hit .260 doing that with about an 800 OPS which is pretty good for 2b.
    But to my original point he'd have to be cutting his K's by a whopping 40-45% (down to the high teens/low 20's) in order to hit .290 + and become a real star. Very unlikely to happen. 
    avatar
    jaywit
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 3645
    Join date : 2009-04-05
    Age : 58
    Location : Spokane, WA

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by jaywit on Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:49 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    jaywit wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    Jack Brickhouse wrote:MONCADA SURE SUCKS!!!


    He has in one category - strikeouts.  They've killed his Bat Avg. as he strikeouts 1/3 of his PA's.   But there's another side to this.
    I looked at all 2bmen since 1983 and then compared how they did at age 23 (Moncada's current) in 5 categories  - Power, BB's, K's, BA off Balls in Play, and Defense. When all 5 categories were combined Moncada ranked 8th of 65 players at age 23.   This puts him in the company of other age 23 top 10 players like Cano, Pedroia,  Alomar, Knoblauch, Baerga, Easley, Marcus Giles. There were only 2 busts in that top 10 category - Jerry Browne and Dustin Ackley.   [size=16]So the chances that Moncada will amount to something are still pretty decent. Worth noting that three other 2bmen ranked much worse than Moncada at age 23 - Sandberg, Durham and Altuve. (all ranked in the 40's). It's too soon to be worrying excessively about him.  [size=16]That said, M[size=16]oncada will have to cut his strikeouts down by 40-50% or he won't be the future star the Sox were hoping for when they got him in the Chris Sale trade.   [/size][/size][/size]
    Since 1983, how many 23 year olds that strikeout 1/3rd of all plate appearances have been able to reduce that by 40-50%?


    He could hit .260 doing that with about an 800 OPS which is pretty good for 2b.
    But to my original point he'd have to be cutting his K's by a whopping 40-45% (down to the high teens/low 20's) in order to hit .290 + and become a real star. Very unlikely to happen. 
    Agree.  He may become a puzzle piece but he's not the star around which a team is built. 
    avatar
    s0ch0a
    Kenny's Draft Choice

    Posts : 83
    Join date : 2012-02-09

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by s0ch0a on Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:05 pm

    I think this year was always supposed to be a lose-big season. Probably looking at the 2019 draft as their last crack at a top-ten pick for quite awhile. One would hope.
    avatar
    alohafri
    Pope Malort I

    Posts : 7660
    Join date : 2009-04-03
    Age : 51
    Location : Southwest Suburbs

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by alohafri on Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:41 pm

    s0ch0a wrote:I think this year was always supposed to be a lose-big season. Probably looking at the 2019 draft as their last crack at a top-ten pick for quite awhile. One would hope.

    I figured this year would be worse than last. Next year may be comparable to this year with a bunch of rookies.
    avatar
    Son of Ron
    Disco Demolition Expert

    Posts : 213
    Join date : 2018-10-17

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by Son of Ron on Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:11 pm

    jaywit wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    But to my original point he'd have to be cutting his K's by a whopping 40-45% (down to the high teens/low 20's) in order to hit .290 + and become a real star. Very unlikely to happen. 
    Agree.  He (Moncada) may become a puzzle piece but he's not the star around which a team is built. 


    BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT MONCADA WAS THE #1 PROSPECT IN ALL OF BASEBALL!!!!!!

    THAT MEANS HE NEEDS TO BE BETTER THAN JUST GOOD FOR A 2B!!!!!

    HE NEEDS TO BE A STAR THE TEAM CAN BUILD AROUND

    IN FACT, THE WHOLE POINT OF GETTING HIGH END PROSPECTS THAT WHERE 3 YEARS AWAY WAS THE HOPE THAT YOU'D HAVE 3-5 TRUE STARS IN THE LINEUP B4 THEY HIT FREE AGENCY.

    IMAGINE HAVING THE FIRST 6 YEARS OF FRANK THOMAS, KEN GRIFFEY, AND ROBERTO ALOMAR ON THE SAME TEAM AT THE SAME TIME.  THAT WAS THE DREAM OF HAHN'S SUMMER OF 2017
    avatar
    Jack Brickhouse
    Silent Hot Dog Vendor

    Posts : 1052
    Join date : 2014-04-03

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by Jack Brickhouse on Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:18 am

    The annual Sox Shit Show ranks them among the WORST organizations in Professional Sports!!!


    A FUCKING JOKE!!
    avatar
    Son of Ron
    Disco Demolition Expert

    Posts : 213
    Join date : 2018-10-17

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by Son of Ron on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:34 am

    Jack Brickhouse wrote:The annual Sox Shit Show ranks them among the WORST organizations in Professional Sports!!!


    A FUCKING JOKE!!


    A real org would not be planning on how to bring back James Shields at a reduced rate

    Sponsored content

    Re: WHAT A JUGGARNAUT!!!!!

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:58 pm