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    Here's your socialized medicine.

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    alohafri
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    Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by alohafri on Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:29 pm

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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Soxillinirob on Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:18 pm

    Really?  That's socialized medicine, and not one particularly strange and isolated situation?  Considering the thousands or millions of lives socialized medicine has saved or improved, and the millions it's saved from bankruptcy, I'd not let a single situation such as this define "socialized medicine" any more than I'd let a person dying of cancer who can't afford treatment in the US as defining our current, American version of healthcare.  It's might easy for guys like you or me to be critical.  We have the absolute best coverage in the world (because of our jobs) and tend to view all else as a threat to our wonderful coverage and care.   Maybe it is.  Maybe it isn't.  I view it, instead, as sharing our coverage and care with the rest of the country, so that we're not the only people fortunate enough to enjoy it.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by alohafri on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:58 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:Really?  That's socialized medicine, and not one particularly strange and isolated situation?  Considering the thousands or millions of lives socialized medicine has saved or improved, and the millions it's saved from bankruptcy, I'd not let a single situation such as this define "socialized medicine" any more than I'd let a person dying of cancer who can't afford treatment in the US as defining our current, American version of healthcare.  It's might easy for guys like you or me to be critical.  We have the absolute best coverage in the world (because of our jobs) and tend to view all else as a threat to our wonderful coverage and care.   Maybe it is.  Maybe it isn't.  I view it, instead, as sharing our coverage and care with the rest of the country, so that we're not the only people fortunate enough to enjoy it.

    It may be an isolated incident, it may not be. It could be a dangerous precedent that gives credence to the "death panels" that were talked about.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:12 am

    Seriously?? How many millions (actually billions) are provided their care through universal care?
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    alohafri
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by alohafri on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:06 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:Seriously??  How many millions (actually billions) are provided their care through universal care?  

    Follow the conversation and stop making up your own information. Is this an isolated event or is this the wave of the future, that the government gets to decide what happens to you or your children or your spouse? If one of your boys gets seriously injured or seriously ill and the government through the doctors say "there is nothing we can do for him, we are going to pull him off of life support." You say, "I'd like to take my son to Israel where there is experimental treatment that I believe can help him. Israel is going to fly my son to Jerusalem and admit him immediately." The government says, "Not so fast. We have already decided to pull the plug. Because we think you are a flight risk, we are going to put you under house arrest and we are not letting you take your son home with you."


    In a nutshell, that is what has happened here. You don't seem to be concerned. I might be. I'll have to see how often things like this happen.
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:10 am

    alohafri wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:Seriously??  How many millions (actually billions) are provided their care through universal care?  

    Follow the conversation and stop making up your own information.

    WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE?!?!?!?!!?

    Is this an isolated event

    CHARLIE GARD ANYBODY?!?!?!?

    or is this the wave of the future,

    RIGHT NOW, IT APPEARS TO BE AN ANNUAL EVENT.

    that the government gets to decide what happens to you or your children or your spouse? If one of your boys gets seriously injured or seriously ill and the government through the doctors say "there is nothing we can do for him, we are going to pull him off of life support." You say, "I'd like to take my son to Israel where there is experimental treatment that I believe can help him. Israel is going to fly my son to Jerusalem and admit him immediately." The government says, "Not so fast. We have already decided to pull the plug. Because we think you are a flight risk, we are going to put you under house arrest and we are not letting you take your son home with you."



    In a nutshell, that is what has happened here. You don't seem to be concerned. I might be. I'll have to see how often things like this happen.

    WHY SHOULD ROBZ BE CONCERNED?!?!?!?


    HE'S ABOVE IT ALL.


    LET THE KARK ALSO ADD, THAT THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO LITTLE ALFIE IN A FREE MARKET HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.  NO WAY IN HELL AN AMERICAN DOCTOR TELLS THE POPE TO "F" OFF.  WHICH IS ESSENTIAL WHAT THE BRITISH MEDICAL GOVERNMENT COMPLEX DID.


    THE REALITY IS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE WORK IS TO NOT ONLY RATION CARE, BUT MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO RECEIVE CARE FROM OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM.  THE DIRTY SECRET IS THAT IF LITTLE CHARLIE GARD OR LITTLE ALFIE EVANS ARE CURED BY THE OUTSIDERS, WAY TOO MANY QUESTIONS WILL BE ASKED BY THE INSIDERS.


    KEVIN IS 100% CORRECT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT BUREAUCRATS RUNNING HEALTHCARE.  APPARENTLY KEVIN IS SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE JIMMY KIMMEL ISN'T THE NATIONAL EXPERT ON THE SUBJECT.  LORD KNOWS THIS POLITCAL FRATBOY WILL NEVER HAVE THE GARD OR THE EVANS ON HIS CRAP SHOW.  DITTO ALL THE OTHER LATE NIGHT PUKES THAT THINK FEELING THE BERN SOMEHOW MAKES THEM MORALLY AND INTELLECTUALLY SUPERIOR WHEN IN REALITY IT JUST MAKES THEM ARROGANT ASSHOLES THAT ARE INCREDIBLY MISINFORMED.


    FREE MARKETS HAVE BEEN ELEVATING THE HUMAN CONDITION SINCE THE DAWN OF CIVILIZATION.  IN FACT, ITS A BIG REASON WHY WE ARE CIVILIZED.  HEALTHCARE IS NO DIFFERENT
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:16 am

    TRUE OR FALSE


    The United States of America has the highest rate of cancer survivors in the world?


    BONUS QUESTION


    what happens more frequently, people coming to America for life saving care, or people leaving America for life saving care
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:35 am

    In a nutshell, that is what has happened here. You don't seem to be concerned. I might be. I'll have to see how often things like this happen.


    **************************


    Last year at this time, insteading of planning my Dad's 80th birthday celebration gala, we were taking him to the hospital and checking out the going rate for extremeunction.


    Fortunately my Dad survived.  Looks like he'll make 81 despite doctors orders.  However, just looking at him, you would not want to bet on 82.  He's not in any pain, but can barely move.  Needs help with everything, including wiping his ass.


    My dad is on dialysis three times a week.  Fortunately for him, he retired from AT&T when they gave excellent retirement benefits.  Between that and medicare, his treatments are covered.  No doubt in my mind that in the single payer system the Bernies and the Hillarys and the Obamas want to give us, my father would be given that infamous pain pill Barack Obama bragged about when he pushed that absolutely horrible govt healthcare plan onto the masses.


    I dare any of the death with dignity crowd to tell my father he is living to long.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:35 am

    alohafri wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:Seriously??  How many millions (actually billions) are provided their care through universal care?  

    Follow the conversation and stop making up your own information. Is this an isolated event or is this the wave of the future, that the government gets to decide what happens to you or your children or your spouse? If one of your boys gets seriously injured or seriously ill and the government through the doctors say "there is nothing we can do for him, we are going to pull him off of life support." You say, "I'd like to take my son to Israel where there is experimental treatment that I believe can help him. Israel is going to fly my son to Jerusalem and admit him immediately." The government says, "Not so fast. We have already decided to pull the plug. Because we think you are a flight risk, we are going to put you under house arrest and we are not letting you take your son home with you."


    In a nutshell, that is what has happened here. You don't seem to be concerned. I might be. I'll have to see how often things like this happen.

    It's very concerning, Kevin, but thus far it's a single incident/situation.  It doesn't strike me as a reason to denigrate a system that billions use and seem to like...a system that has saved peoples' lives, kept them out of bankruptcy, and bettered lives on a whole.  There is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS an example of any system not working properly.  You name it....Social Security, the US Educational system, the police, Medicare, YOUR pension system, our tax system.  You can find hundreds or thousands of instances with each of those systems whereby someone got unfairly screwed, or left behind, or injured, or killed as a result.  It just looks to me like here comes one, specific, fucked-up incident that seems to make no sense whatsoever, and there's a rush to objectify that instance as possibly the norm.  The better approach would probably be to continue asking questions about WHY THIS happened, rather than to denigrate the idea of sharing our great care with the whole nation, rather than just those that are lucky as you or I.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by alohafri on Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:28 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:Seriously??  How many millions (actually billions) are provided their care through universal care?  

    Follow the conversation and stop making up your own information. Is this an isolated event or is this the wave of the future, that the government gets to decide what happens to you or your children or your spouse? If one of your boys gets seriously injured or seriously ill and the government through the doctors say "there is nothing we can do for him, we are going to pull him off of life support." You say, "I'd like to take my son to Israel where there is experimental treatment that I believe can help him. Israel is going to fly my son to Jerusalem and admit him immediately." The government says, "Not so fast. We have already decided to pull the plug. Because we think you are a flight risk, we are going to put you under house arrest and we are not letting you take your son home with you."


    In a nutshell, that is what has happened here. You don't seem to be concerned. I might be. I'll have to see how often things like this happen.

    It's very concerning, Kevin, but thus far it's a single incident/situation.  It doesn't strike me as a reason to denigrate a system that billions use and seem to like...a system that has saved peoples' lives, kept them out of bankruptcy, and bettered lives on a whole.  There is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS an example of any system not working properly.  You name it....Social Security, the US Educational system, the police, Medicare, YOUR pension system, our tax system.  You can find hundreds or thousands of instances with each of those systems whereby someone got unfairly screwed, or left behind, or injured, or killed as a result.  It just looks to me like here comes one, specific, fucked-up incident that seems to make no sense whatsoever, and there's a rush to objectify that instance as possibly the norm.  The better approach would probably be to continue asking questions about WHY THIS happened, rather than to denigrate the idea of sharing our great care with the whole nation, rather than just those that are lucky as you or I.

    Fair enough. This was England, not the United States. If it had been here, you'd be hearing a lot more about the "death panels" deciding who lives and who dies. Imagine the uproar if Governor Rauner had said, "no, 15 year old girl, you may not go to Iowa to get an abortion because they are allowing underaged girls to get abortions without their parents' permission."


    Oddly, many of those who care about the life of this boy are the same people who would be dancing in the street if they screwed me out of my pension because I'm a "part time" worker.
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:50 pm

    JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE ROBZ PUTS KEVIN IN HIS PLACE
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:53 pm

    JUST HOW IN THE BLUE HELL WOULD RAUNER KEEP A 15 YEAR YOUNG LADY OUT OF IOWA?!?!?

    TALK ABOUT INVENTING YOUR OWN INFORMATION!!!!!!
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    alohafri
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by alohafri on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:01 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:JUST HOW IN THE BLUE HELL WOULD RAUNER KEEP A 15 YEAR YOUNG LADY OUT OF IOWA?!?!?

    TALK ABOUT INVENTING YOUR OWN INFORMATION!!!!!!

    Imagine the uproar if Governor Rauner had said, "no, 15 year old girl, you may not go to Iowa to get an abortion because they are allowing underaged girls to get abortions without their parents' permission."


    Inventive reading skills?
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:06 pm

    alohafri wrote:

    Fair enough. This was England, not the United States. If it had been here, you'd be hearing a lot more about the "death panels" deciding who lives and who dies. Imagine the uproar if Governor Rauner had said, "no, 15 year old girl, you may not go to Iowa to get an abortion because they are allowing underaged girls to get abortions without their parents' permission."


    Oddly, many of those who care about the life of this boy are the same people who would be dancing in the street if they screwed me out of my pension because I'm a "part time" worker.

    True, you teachers don't deserve shit, because you have summers off and already make way too fucking much.  


    I'm every bit as concerned about this particular incident and quite truly fail to understand the position or the angle that lead England to assert that kind of power, or take that kind of position.  It's worrisome in its own right.  It doesn't worry me about Universal Care, although it's fair to suggest that at some point decisions will have to be made about what's reasonable treatment and what's too much.  
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:10 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE ROBZ PUTS KEVIN IN HIS PLACE

    Kevin is a mature adult who can have someone disagree with him without shitting himself and turning into a child and calling people names on this board.  There are days when he deserves to be put in his place, and there are days when I deserve it.  Kevin has rightfully put me in my place a few times, in fact.  This isn't a time for that, however.  I just disagree with his objectifying of universal care by pointing at a single, particular instance.  
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:12 pm

    Oddly, many of those who care about the life of this boy are the same people who would be dancing in the street if they screwed me out of my pension because I'm a "part time" worker.


    ******************************

    If the Pope wants to save your pension fund, I can't think of a single person that would stop him.  Maybe he can grant you Sainthood as well.  Your certainly act like your entitled to it
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:13 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:JUST HOW IN THE BLUE HELL WOULD RAUNER KEEP A 15 YEAR YOUNG LADY OUT OF IOWA?!?!?

    TALK ABOUT INVENTING YOUR OWN INFORMATION!!!!!!

    Imagine the uproar if Governor Rauner had said, "no, 15 year old girl, you may not go to Iowa to get an abortion because they are allowing underaged girls to get abortions without their parents' permission."


    Inventive reading skills?


    SMOKE SOME MORE POT MR KETTLE!!!!!
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    alohafri
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by alohafri on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:17 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:Oddly, many of those who care about the life of this boy are the same people who would be dancing in the street if they screwed me out of my pension because I'm a "part time" worker.


    ******************************

    If the Pope wants to save your pension fund, I can't think of a single person that would stop him.  Maybe he can grant you Sainthood as well.  Your certainly act like your entitled to it


    Oh, I get it. I don't toe your line about what a Republican is supposed to be, full of vitriol, full of anger, because I like to suggest that people can work together to get things done, and I'm "holier than thou." 
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:33 pm

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/world/europe/uk-national-health-service.html


    *****************************************************


    ISOLATED INCIDENT MY BLACK ASS!!!!


    WORKS ALL OVER THE WORLD MY BLACK FOOT!!!!


    WELL MAYBE IN CANADA WHERE YOU HAVE LESS THAN 40 MILLION PEOPLE AND AN ARMY SMALLER THAN THE CHICAGO POLICE FORCE.....


    PLUS ROBZ ADMITTED HE HAS NO IDEA HOW A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM WOULD ACTUALLY WORK IN AMERICA!!!!


    HOW THE HELL DO YOU INTELLIGENTLY DISCUSS A TOPIC WITH THAT KIND OF PERSON?!?!?!  EVEN KEVIN HAS SPOTTED ROBZ INVENTING HIS OWN INFORMATION!!!!!!


    NAIL THE SCHMUCK WITH A LEGITIMATE CONCERN AND HE GOES ALL FRATBOY ON YOU


    LIKE I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER BUT LIKE SOMETHING COULD BE DONE JUST LOOK AT EUROPE OK, LIKE HOW DO THEY DO IT?  YOU KNOW?


    REAL FREAKIN' INTELLIGENT
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:38 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:NAIL THE SCHMUCK WITH A LEGITIMATE CONCERN AND HE GOES ALL FRATBOY ON YOU

    Is Fratboy an insult?  I take that you think it is.  Never joined a frat because they were a huge turnoff to me.  Total GDI, right here.  That said, I'm not sure I understand how you're using it as an insult.  There are probably some that would take it as a compliment.  
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:39 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:PLUS ROBZ ADMITTED HE HAS NO IDEA HOW A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM WOULD ACTUALLY WORK IN AMERICA!!!!


    Not just Rob Z.  Nobody is particularly sure how it would work here.  That doesn't mean it can't.  It very much can, and eventually will.  Just you wait and see.
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:45 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:Oddly, many of those who care about the life of this boy are the same people who would be dancing in the street if they screwed me out of my pension because I'm a "part time" worker.


    ******************************

    If the Pope wants to save your pension fund, I can't think of a single person that would stop him.  Maybe he can grant you Sainthood as well.  Your certainly act like your entitled to it


    Oh, I get it. I don't toe your line about what a Republican is supposed to be, full of vitriol, full of anger, because I like to suggest that people can work together to get things done, and I'm "holier than thou." 


    TALK ABOUT INVENTIVE READING!!!!!


    You're the one that brought teachers pensions into this, not me.


    BTW, in the past, I have tried to discuss how a single payer might work in this Nation in an adult like way.  Don't recall you jumping into that conversation.  Not even one of your lame wisecracks.  Your buddy RobZ claimed he never thought about how to make it work, then gave a snide remark about how the GOP wants us all to die.


    But hey if tweedle dee and tweedle dum want to discuss it, I've been studying the issue since 2004 due to employer provided insurance is a payroll function that ends up in the hands of the accounting department.  So I know for a fact things where a heck of a lot easier prior to Obamacare.  Seen it with my own eyes.  I don't need Rachel Maddow telling me what to believe.
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:57 pm

    PS, for over ten years, I've explain that if my employer is paying an insurance company something like $15K to an insurance company but my doctor and other healthcare providers are only charging me $5K a year, wouldn't I better better off if my employer gave me a $15K raise and I paid my doctor in cash?


    Absolutely amazing how this simple idea flies over the heads of supposedly intelligent adults.  Makes me wonder if the people on this board even know the purpose of insurance.  Healthcare or otherwise.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by alohafri on Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:11 pm

    scratch afro lol! jocolor geek queen king farao rendeer sunny albino cherry santa drunken bom affraid cyclops Evil or Very Mad Shocked Sad Arrow Neutral What a Face
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Here's your socialized medicine.

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:17 pm

    So does that mean you no longer consider the death of baby Alfie to be a symbol of the very real limits of socialized medicine?  Or do you still stand by the opinion you expressed that open this thread?  Or have you reached some new conclusion?

    And don’t forget to answer in a polite adult like manner.  It would really make me sad if Al in Cal turned out to be correct about you

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