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    The Pope closes Hell

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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:46 pm

    al in cal wrote:

    Where I think that this pope is wrong is if people think that there is no consequence of hell, then why live a moral life? It doesn't make sense. 

    It makes sense to me to live a moral life, and I have no belief in a God who specifically judges us in any afterlife.  We don't need religion to live morally or ethically.  There are millions of atheists who live morally.  They do so because they want to leave the earth a better place than they found it.  

    How moral is someone if they are only acting within a certain set of guidelines because they fear the punishment for not toeing the line?  If I'm asked who is the "better person" in God's eyes and have to compare a God-fearing Christian who never broke a single rule because of the fear of God to an atheist who lives a charitable life because he thinks it's what he's supposed to do, I think God is a much bigger fan of person B because that person is a acting in such a way without any expectation of an afterlife reward.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:52 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:The Side Of Jesus That Is Often Ignored (especially by lying arrogant schmucks)



    Jesus Was Intolerant Of Sin And Those Who Promoted It. Much of His time on earth was spent exposing and condemning the sins of the Jewish leadership. He warned His disciples, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 16.6]Matthew 16:6[/url]). Initially the disciples didn’t understand His words. But after Jesus 

    Now I've seen everything.  Kark is quoting the Bible, as if there is any world in which you have some kind of spiritual or moral authority.  Love it.  Go get 'em, tiger.  Teach me about the Lawwwwd.  Teach me what the Lawwwd expects of me.  Teach me the error of my ways.  Preach.
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    alohafri
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by alohafri on Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:57 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:The Side Of Jesus That Is Often Ignored (especially by lying arrogant schmucks)



    Jesus Was Intolerant Of Sin And Those Who Promoted It. Much of His time on earth was spent exposing and condemning the sins of the Jewish leadership. He warned His disciples, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 16.6]Matthew 16:6[/url]). Initially the disciples didn’t understand His words. But after Jesus 

    Now I've seen everything.  Kark is quoting the Bible, as if there is any world in which you have some kind of spiritual or moral authority.  Love it.  Go get 'em, tiger.  Teach me about the Lawwwwd.  Teach me what the Lawwwd expects of me.  Teach me the error of my ways.  Preach.

    Kark isn't quoting the Bible. He is quoting someone who was quoting the Bible (probably someone like Huckabee or a pastor from Bob Jones University).
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:08 am

    alohafri wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:The Side Of Jesus That Is Often Ignored (especially by lying arrogant schmucks)



    Jesus Was Intolerant Of Sin And Those Who Promoted It. Much of His time on earth was spent exposing and condemning the sins of the Jewish leadership. He warned His disciples, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 16.6]Matthew 16:6[/url]). Initially the disciples didn’t understand His words. But after Jesus 

    Now I've seen everything.  Kark is quoting the Bible, as if there is any world in which you have some kind of spiritual or moral authority.  Love it.  Go get 'em, tiger.  Teach me about the Lawwwwd.  Teach me what the Lawwwd expects of me.  Teach me the error of my ways.  Preach.

    Kark isn't quoting the Bible. He is quoting someone who was quoting the Bible (probably someone like Huckabee or a pastor from Bob Jones University).

    Even so, there's something very precious about him providing religious guidance.  
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    alohafri
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by alohafri on Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:39 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:The Side Of Jesus That Is Often Ignored (especially by lying arrogant schmucks)



    Jesus Was Intolerant Of Sin And Those Who Promoted It. Much of His time on earth was spent exposing and condemning the sins of the Jewish leadership. He warned His disciples, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 16.6]Matthew 16:6[/url]). Initially the disciples didn’t understand His words. But after Jesus explained, "they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 16.12]Matthew 16:12[/url]). His language in Matthew 23 is among the strongest in all the Bible. He referred to the Scribes and Pharisees as "hypocrites," "serpents," "brood of vipers." He described them as "full of extortion and self-indulgence," "full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." He said that they, "devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers." He was intolerant of those who rejected Him after seeing His miracles, "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 11.21-22]Matthew 11:21-22[/url]). Jesus was intolerant of those who set aside God’s law to follow human tradition ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matt. 15.3-9]Matt. 15:3-9[/url]). He did not tolerate "false christs" and "false prophets" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 24.24]Matthew 24:24[/url]). He told the Sadducees that they were "mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 22.29]Matthew 22:29[/url]).
         Jesus’ disciples followed His example of intolerance. The early church did not tolerate the sin of Ananias and Sapphira, they were struck dead ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts 5.1-11]Acts 5:1-11[/url]). When the judaizing teachers came to Antioch, "Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts 15.2]Acts 15:2[/url]). When these same false teachers tried to compel circumcision Paul "did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Galatians 2.5]Galatians 2:5[/url]). Paul wrote, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Ephesians 5.11]Ephesians 5:11[/url]). The New Testament occasionally exposed false teachers by name and the error they tried to teach ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/II Timothy 2.16-18]II Timothy 2:16-18[/url]).

         The language of the early preachers was similar to that of Jesus in Matthew 23. Stephen called the Jews he was addressing "stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears" and "betrayers and murderers" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts 7.51-52]Acts 7:51-52[/url]). The apostle Paul said of Elymas, "O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts 13.10]Acts 13:10[/url]). He referred to the false teachers who would come into the church at Ephesus as "savage wolves" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Acts 20.29]Acts 20:29[/url]). James called some of his readers "adulterers and adulteresses," "sinners" and "double-minded" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/James 4.1-10]James 4:1-10[/url]). Truth should never be given equal weight with error, and the faithful Christian will never tolerate that which opposed to truth.



    “God prefers a loving sinner to a loveless “saint.” Love can be trained; pride cannot. The man who thinks that he knows will rarely find truth; the man who knows he is a miserable, unhappy sinner, like the woman at the well, is closer to peace, joy and salvation than he knows.” 
    ― Fulton J. SheenLife of Christ
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:45 am

    alohafri wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:The Side Of Jesus That Is Often Ignored (especially by lying arrogant schmucks)



    Jesus Was Intolerant Of Sin And Those Who Promoted It. Much of His time on earth was spent exposing and condemning the sins of the Jewish leadership. He warned His disciples, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees" ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Matthew 16.6]Matthew 16:6[/url]). Initially the disciples didn’t understand His words. But after Jesus 

    Now I've seen everything.  Kark is quoting the Bible, as if there is any world in which you have some kind of spiritual or moral authority.  Love it.  Go get 'em, tiger.  Teach me about the Lawwwwd.  Teach me what the Lawwwd expects of me.  Teach me the error of my ways.  Preach.

    Kark isn't quoting the Bible. He is quoting someone who was quoting the Bible (probably someone like Huckabee or a pastor from Bob Jones University).


    As opposed to your buddy who is just inventing the Bible out of whole cloth, then becomes his typical sarcastic asshole self when shown how completely illogical his statement are.


    Anybody that knows a damn thing about religion, any religion, knows that religion does not look kindly on the non believers


    PS, I just love how RobZ, who routinely lies to me talks about moral authority.  The dumb schmuck thinks voting for Bernie sanders makes him virtuous


    PSS, Kevin you want Bible then try Matthew 25:14-30.  Then tell me how loving and accepting and tolerant the master was to the third servant in the parable of the talents.


    PSSS, exposing the outright lies of your buddy Rob, who has shown me zero intellectual honesty on this board, does not violate "judge not, lest you be judged"  And just who many here have judged the KARK based on false premises.  I have had 4 people tell me that they don't know a thing about the subject, but claimed I was wrong about it.  Huh?  thankfully, 3 of them are gone.
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:54 am

    alohafri wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:

    AND JUST FOR KEVIN:

    G.K. Chesteron, “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.”

    And just for Kark...


    http://www.reasonablecatholic.com/on-pope-francis-chesterton/



    HUH?!?!?!


    You are the master of the nonsequitor


    Oh well, at least you don't invent crap and then lie your ass off about it like your buddy RobZ


    BTW, still waiting on that Bible verse where Jesus decided to heal a sinner who refused to accept him as Lord and Saviour.  Which is the point I am arguing.  Not what dead person the Pope would be all buddy buddy with if alive today.  
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:22 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:

    Anybody that knows a damn thing about religion, any religion, knows that religion does not look kindly on the non believers

    Which is why I wholeheartedly give zero fucks about any such religion.  
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:24 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:

    As opposed to your buddy who is just inventing the Bible out of whole cloth, then becomes his typical sarcastic asshole self when shown how completely illogical his statement are.


    There are some that would argue that the actual Bible was invented out of whole cloth, but I digress....
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    alohafri
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by alohafri on Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:24 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:

    AND JUST FOR KEVIN:

    G.K. Chesteron, “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.”

    And just for Kark...


    http://www.reasonablecatholic.com/on-pope-francis-chesterton/



    HUH?!?!?!


    You are the master of the nonsequitor


    Oh well, at least you don't invent crap and then lie your ass off about it like your buddy RobZ


    BTW, still waiting on that Bible verse where Jesus decided to heal a sinner who refused to accept him as Lord and Saviour.  Which is the point I am arguing.  Not what dead person the Pope would be all buddy buddy with if alive today.  

    And you are the master of not making any sense. The Bible tells us very little, if anything, about what those who Jesus encountered did later in life. The woman who was to be stoned for committing adultery was told "I don't condemn you either, go and sin no more." We don't know if she continued this sin or not. What happened to the priest and the Levite who left the guy laying on the side of the road so the foreigner ("the Good Samaritan") could do what they should have done, help him? Were they punished?


    Your problem is that you want to see punishments happen. I picture you standing outside of a confessional screaming through the door at the priest for not condemning sinners to kneeling in salt for 16 hours with their knees cut open so they suffer.


    If you really want to know what happens to the sinner who refused to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, you'll have to wait to see what happens at the end of times. 
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    alohafri
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by alohafri on Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:44 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:


    Anybody that knows a damn thing about religion, any religion, knows that religion does not look kindly on the non believers


    You are wrong. Matthew 10: 12-14
    As you enter a house, wish it peace.
    13
    [size][font]If the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it; if not, let your peace return to you.*[/font][/size]
    14
    [size][font]* h Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words—go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet.[/font][/size]
    15
    [size][font]Amen, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.i[/font][/size]


    In other words, ignore them. If they don't believe after seeing the curing of the sick, etc., leave them be. They will not get the reward in the afterlife. Nothing about punishment in the current life.
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    alohafri
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by alohafri on Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:55 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:



    PSS, Kevin you want Bible then try Matthew 25:14-30.  Then tell me how loving and accepting and tolerant the master was to the third servant in the parable of the talents.


    And, at the risk of sounding like a priest, in many interpretations, what have you done with your talents for the glory of God?


    And, what about Matthew 18:21? 
    Then Peter approaching asked him, “Lord, if my brother sins against me, how often must I forgive him? As many as seven times?”
    22
    [size][font]* Jesus answered, “I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times.
    [/font][/size]


    At the time of the writing of the Bible, 77 times basically meant as many times as necessary.


    You might want to remove that plank from your eye before you comment about the speck in your brother's eye.

    al in cal
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by al in cal on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:13 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    al in cal wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure Jesus would have accepted, befriended, and loved anyone that was living their lives in a positive or moral way.  Atheism is not immorality, nor is it sin.  


    I agree that Jesus would not have accepted sin as acceptable.  But he would have loved the sinner and tried being a positive influence in that sinner's life.

       I agree with that. But he would have sent the atheist straight to hell when he died without any qualms.Atheism is a conscious choice by man and is itself a mortal sin. That is why this pope really needs to clear the air on this issue instead of leaving it up to his surrogates to explain. And these guys are making even more of a mess out of it.


    Al, why would you agree with such double talking gibberish.  First, the 10 commandment make it very clear that it is a sin if you do not believe in the one and only God.  It also defies common sense that the Son of God would have been "cool" with an Atheist.  BTW, I suspect 2000 years ago, an atheist would be as rare as a polar bear in Hawaii.


    The Bible I was taught during 12 years of Catholic school did not describe some free love hippie which Mr RobZ is clearly inventing with zero regard for what is actually in the Bible.  The Jesus we were taught did not accept anybody who did not accept him as Lord first.  I cannot think of any example where Jesus accepted sinner as a friend and tried to change him by setting a proper example.  This nonsense is straight out of RobZ imagination.  However, I do recall countless examples where Jesus forgave the sinner because the sinner repented, accepted him as Lord, and rejected his sinful lifestyle.  and this didn't happen by Jesus setting the example.  It happened miraclulously and instantanously.


    PS, RobZ denies this because he doesn't believe in miracles and he doesn't believe in the miracles of Jesus because he denies Jesus divinity.  which is why he is invented his own Bible.  Hopefully Kevin will correct all his buddies inaccuracies once he is done taking cheap shots at Donald Trump

    What I am saying, Kark, is that Jesus would try to change the mind of a sinner and not condemn him. And I disagree with your opinion that he didn't do it by example. Look at his relationship with Mary Magdollen(sp?) for example. She was a big time prostitute and he didn't condemn her. Instead by his words and deeds he transformed her into a loving believer in him. The same thing with the Good Thief on the cross.

    Also, atheism is clearly a mortal sin. THe 1st commandment clearly makes that point no less. As far as I am concerned atheists consider themselves to be gods in that they believe themselves to be on a higher plane that the folks that believe in a supreme being. I've known a few folks who are atheists and to a person they all were intellectual creeps who mocked religion and those who believe in it. In a way they are like the leftists in this country who believed and supported Hillary when she talked about the people who supported Trump as being a bunch of illiterate morons. How did that work out for that bitch and her supporters?
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:16 pm

    alohafri wrote:

    In other words, ignore them. If they don't believe after seeing the curing of the sick, etc., leave them be. They will not get the reward in the afterlife. Nothing about punishment in the current life.

    This seems a much better way to attract folks to a religion.  Bring them in with love, understanding and acceptance, and then try leading them down the proper path.  Seems logical and reasonable, at least to a lying schmuck.  
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:23 pm

    From Coach:  "As far as I am concerned atheists consider themselves to be gods in that they believe themselves to be on a higher plane that the folks that believe in a supreme being. I've known a few folks who are atheists and to a person they all were intellectual creeps"








    I know a solid 100 or so atheists or agnostics (I am an agnostic).  Some of them mock.  Others don't.  I can't recall any of them considering themselves to be on a higher plane than those believing in God.  Not sure where that comes from.  Most of the atheists I know just live their lives and can't understand why so many people spend their Sundays with religion and church, rather than doing other things.  That's clearly their prerogative, and all of them have accepted that if there's truly a God that will punish them for such beliefs then they'll deal with that punishment when the time comes. 
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    alohafri
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by alohafri on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:26 pm

    al in cal wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    al in cal wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure Jesus would have accepted, befriended, and loved anyone that was living their lives in a positive or moral way.  Atheism is not immorality, nor is it sin.  


    I agree that Jesus would not have accepted sin as acceptable.  But he would have loved the sinner and tried being a positive influence in that sinner's life.

       I agree with that. But he would have sent the atheist straight to hell when he died without any qualms.Atheism is a conscious choice by man and is itself a mortal sin. That is why this pope really needs to clear the air on this issue instead of leaving it up to his surrogates to explain. And these guys are making even more of a mess out of it.


    Al, why would you agree with such double talking gibberish.  First, the 10 commandment make it very clear that it is a sin if you do not believe in the one and only God.  It also defies common sense that the Son of God would have been "cool" with an Atheist.  BTW, I suspect 2000 years ago, an atheist would be as rare as a polar bear in Hawaii.


    The Bible I was taught during 12 years of Catholic school did not describe some free love hippie which Mr RobZ is clearly inventing with zero regard for what is actually in the Bible.  The Jesus we were taught did not accept anybody who did not accept him as Lord first.  I cannot think of any example where Jesus accepted sinner as a friend and tried to change him by setting a proper example.  This nonsense is straight out of RobZ imagination.  However, I do recall countless examples where Jesus forgave the sinner because the sinner repented, accepted him as Lord, and rejected his sinful lifestyle.  and this didn't happen by Jesus setting the example.  It happened miraclulously and instantanously.


    PS, RobZ denies this because he doesn't believe in miracles and he doesn't believe in the miracles of Jesus because he denies Jesus divinity.  which is why he is invented his own Bible.  Hopefully Kevin will correct all his buddies inaccuracies once he is done taking cheap shots at Donald Trump

    What I am saying, Kark, is that Jesus would try to change the mind of a sinner and not condemn him. And I disagree with your opinion that he didn't do it by example. Look at his relationship with Mary Magdollen(sp?) for example. She was a big time prostitute and he didn't condemn her. Instead by his words and deeds he transformed her into a loving believer in him. The same thing with the Good Thief on the cross.

    Also, atheism is clearly a mortal sin. THe 1st commandment clearly makes that point no less. As far as I am concerned atheists consider themselves to be gods in that they believe themselves to be on a higher plane that the folks that believe in a supreme being. I've known a few folks who are atheists and to a person they all were intellectual creeps who mocked religion and those who believe in it. In a way they are like the leftists in this country who believed and supported Hillary when she talked about the people who supported Trump as being a bunch of illiterate morons. How did that work out for that bitch and her supporters?

    Here is what Trent Horn, a Catholic writer and scholar, says to do about atheists, and anyone else who opposes you.

     It should serve as a lesson to follow the words of Jesus when he says, “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust” (Matt. 5:44-45)


    Here endeth the lesson.
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    alohafri
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by alohafri on Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:52 pm

    al in cal wrote:

    What I am saying, Kark, is that Jesus would try to change the mind of a sinner and not condemn him. And I disagree with your opinion that he didn't do it by example. Look at his relationship with Mary Magdollen(sp?) for example. She was a big time prostitute and he didn't condemn her. Instead by his words and deeds he transformed her into a loving believer in him. The same thing with the Good Thief on the cross.


    Al, I completely agree with you here. Jesus taught through parables, stories with a moral. How was Christianity spread throughout the Roman empire? By Christians going two miles rather than one mile with the Roman soldiers, making friends of enemies.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:16 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    Al, I completely agree with you here. Jesus taught through parables, stories with a moral. How was Christianity spread throughout the Roman empire? By Christians going two miles rather than one mile with the Roman soldiers, making friends of enemies.


    Seriously, how else would you ever grow a religion and a following?  You try to attract followers through a loving message of acceptance, or by threatening them with hellfire and misery if they don't join?  I'm guessing door #1 is going to get quite a few more takers.  Trying to imagine a random atheist/non-believer happening on this site and reading with curiosity.  if that person is at all ripe for religion, is he going to go the direction of Kevin's message?  Or Kark's message of hate and reject the sinner or non-believer.  Isn't there a saying about attracting flies with some kind of sticky, sweet substance?  
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    alohafri
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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by alohafri on Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:05 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    Al, I completely agree with you here. Jesus taught through parables, stories with a moral. How was Christianity spread throughout the Roman empire? By Christians going two miles rather than one mile with the Roman soldiers, making friends of enemies.


    Seriously, how else would you ever grow a religion and a following?  You try to attract followers through a loving message of acceptance, or by threatening them with hellfire and misery if they don't join?  I'm guessing door #1 is going to get quite a few more takers.  Trying to imagine a random atheist/non-believer happening on this site and reading with curiosity.  if that person is at all ripe for religion, is he going to go the direction of Kevin's message?  Or Kark's message of hate and reject the sinner or non-believer.  Isn't there a saying about attracting flies with some kind of sticky, sweet substance?  

    And before Kark starts his rant on your word choice of "acceptance", it goes back to "hate the sin, love the sinner." 
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    Soxillinirob
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    Location : St. Charles, IL

    Re: The Pope closes Hell

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:29 pm

    "Acceptance" is a tricky word.  I get his point.  I don't accept if my kids are being fuckheads, but I still love and appreciate them.  We try correcting them and steering them down the proper road.  I haven't rejected any of them...yet.  None of us were there 2000 years ago, so to assume we're sure what Jesus or any of his buddies would have thought or would have said to a gay person, or some kind of sinner or atheist is pretty ridiculous.  We can only assume, and we've all been taught slightly differently about the kind of guy he was, and the kind of things he did and said.  Everyone that speaks religion with me has a different idea about Jesus and God.  Honestly, have never run across two people with the same story.  This guy says Jesus would shun atheists.  The next guy says he would love them.  And when someone tells me what God thinks, I can only laugh at the notion that ANY of us knows what any God thinks.  

    Everything I've ever learned about Jesus (be it true or be it utter bullshit) is that he was a loving, accepting person that went out of his way to make the unloved feel loved, to make the sick feel better, to make the unaccepted feel accepted.  There are worthwhile theories that explain that Jesus' "healings" were a mental and spiritual healing that served to make those shunned by society to feel more accepted.   Beats me.  Seeing as how it happened too long ago to have any realistic guidance on Jesus' true leanings, I try to view him metaphorically as the loving (hippy!) guy I've been taught that he was.  If nothing else, that metaphorical loving and accepting person is a great thing for anyone to strive to be, even if that person is NOT a Christian.  And since everyone seems so sure that they know what Jesus would have thought about stuff, I've decided that I'm sure Jesus would have seen it exactly my way.  Hot damn.

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    Re: The Pope closes Hell

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