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    Moose signing but not with Sox

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    rmapasad
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    Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:51 am

    ff Passan of Yahoo Sports reports the Royals have reached a one-year,  $ 6.5 million deal with 3B Mike Moustakas.  The deal is still pending a physical. Moustakas will earn a $5.5 million base salary with another $2.2 million available in performance bonuses. The contract also includes a mutual second-year option for $15 million or a $1 million buyout. If the option gets picked up, it would bring the deal's total value to $22.7 million. Moustakas probably regrets turning down Kansas City's qualifying offer, which would have paid him $17.4 million for 2018. >>>


    This pretty much says it all.    Moose is taking about $ 10 million less than he could have had by accepting the QO. Plus it looks like if the Royals want to pick up his option for 2019
    he'll need a good year in 2019 to land something decent in free agency in 2020.   Where Moustakas' teammates (Cain and Hosmer) got 5 and 8 year deals.. Wow...
    Even though Moose settled for the lowball deal that suited Sox's budget, it still wouldn't have make a lot of sense for the Sox.  

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    alohafri
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    Re: Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by alohafri on Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:06 am

    Thank God that's over with. Back to the rebuild.
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:16 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    ff Passan of Yahoo Sports reports the Royals have reached a one-year,  $ 6.5 million deal with 3B Mike Moustakas.  The deal is still pending a physical. Moustakas will earn a $5.5 million base salary with another $2.2 million available in performance bonuses. The contract also includes a mutual second-year option for $15 million or a $1 million buyout. If the option gets picked up, it would bring the deal's total value to $22.7 million. Moustakas probably regrets turning down Kansas City's qualifying offer, which would have paid him $17.4 million for 2018. >>>


    This pretty much says it all.    Moose is taking about $ 10 million less than he could have had by accepting the QO. Plus it looks like if the Royals want to pick up his option for 2019
    he'll need a good year in 2019 to land something decent in free agency in 2020.   Where Moustakas' teammates (Cain and Hosmer) got 5 and 8 year deals.. Wow...
    Even though Moose settled for the lowball deal that suited Sox's budget, it still wouldn't have make a lot of sense for the Sox.  



    The KARK suspects home town discount.


    BTW, signing the MOUSE makes more sense than sticking Yolmer at 3B in between Matt Davidson homeruns.


    although I suppose that without the MOUSE, the White Sox just may realize Yolmer and Yoan need to be flipped in the diamond


    You need to realize that 2019 is still within the realm of possibility
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:17 am

    alohafri wrote:Thank God that's over with. Back to the rebuild.


    Just wait until the Mouse starts hitting all those lucky groundball homeruns that will drive his BABIP into the stratosphere
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:06 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    ff Passan of Yahoo Sports reports the Royals have reached a one-year,  $ 6.5 million deal with 3B Mike Moustakas.  The deal is still pending a physical. Moustakas will earn a $5.5 million base salary with another $2.2 million available in performance bonuses. The contract also includes a mutual second-year option for $15 million or a $1 million buyout. If the option gets picked up, it would bring the deal's total value to $22.7 million. Moustakas probably regrets turning down Kansas City's qualifying offer, which would have paid him $17.4 million for 2018. >>>


    This pretty much says it all.    Moose is taking about $ 10 million less than he could have had by accepting the QO. Plus it looks like if the Royals want to pick up his option for 2019
    he'll need a good year in 2019 to land something decent in free agency in 2020.   Where Moustakas' teammates (Cain and Hosmer) got 5 and 8 year deals.. Wow...
    Even though Moose settled for the lowball deal that suited Sox's budget, it still wouldn't have make a lot of sense for the Sox.  



    The KARK suspects home town discount.


    BTW, signing the MOUSE makes more sense than sticking Yolmer at 3B in between Matt Davidson homeruns.


    although I suppose that without the MOUSE, the White Sox just may realize Yolmer and Yoan need to be flipped in the diamond


    You need to realize that 2019 is still within the realm of possibility

    Despite the 38 HR's this year, Moustakas didn't get a job as expected partly because of suspicions about his consistency and durability. This along with his demanding agent (Scott Boras) and expected pricetag scared off the bidders that needed a 3bman, notably Angels, Yankees, Mets and Giants. 

    The $ 6.5 mil guaranteed is a shocker but in some years he's barely been worth that  (2016, 2014, 2013).  Even in 2017, his WAR was just 2.2.  He's a low average (not as low as Davidson) hitter with weak BB rates, no speed, and a possibly declining glove.  Being a "name vet" was his main calling card. 

    Even if the Sox were ready to contend in 2019 (doubtful), his option calls for $ 15 mil that year.  Plus what would it have cost the Sox to have locked him into 2020, a more realistic contention year ?  Clearly guaranteed money for 2019 (probably the $ 15 mil) , then a $ 18- 20 mil or so option for 2020.. Not sure there's a good reason to shell out  that loot plus effectively end Sanchez's and Davidson's prospects with the Sox for a mediocrity like Moustakas.  
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    Mr Modelo
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    Re: Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by Mr Modelo on Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:24 pm

    If one looks at spring training stats, one would have to assume Yolmer Sanchez is the starting 3B.  He has 47 inning at 3B.  Next, with 21, is career minor leaguer Patrick Leonard, who will not make the team.  Tyler Saladino gets the bronze at 18 innings.  Matt Davidson has one spring appearance at 3B, where he started the first 5 innings.  Looking further into Yolmer Sanchez, he does not have any innings at 2B or SS,  Leury Garcia is playing all over the infield.  5IP at 3B; 35 at SS; 10 at 2B; plus 9 in the OF; all in CF.  This suggests that the White Sox are looking at Leury Garcia as the utility infielder and not the everyday CF.
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:30 pm

    Not sure there's a good reason to shell out  that loot plus effectively end Sanchez's and Davidson's prospects with the Sox for a mediocrity like Moustakas.


    *********************************************


    THE WHITE SOX WILL PISS AWAY THE YOLMER THE HIDDEN GEM REGARDLESS!!!!!


    AS FOR MATT DAVIDSON, WE HE BE A MAJOR LEAGUER IN 2020?!?!?!?


    THE MOUSE WILL BE


    READ THE 3M THREAD FOR MORE LOGIC
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:09 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:Not sure there's a good reason to shell out  that loot plus effectively end Sanchez's and Davidson's prospects with the Sox for a mediocrity like Moustakas.


    *********************************************


    THE WHITE SOX WILL PISS AWAY THE YOLMER THE HIDDEN GEM REGARDLESS!!!!!


    AS FOR MATT DAVIDSON, WE HE BE A MAJOR LEAGUER IN 2020?!?!?!?


    THE MOUSE WILL BE


    READ THE 3M THREAD FOR MORE LOGIC

    Understand the logic but it had some assumptions that might not work.  If Moose came to the Sox, Sanchez's trade value would go to nil as a utility guy.  And who knows whether Machado is a good SS or not. Or whether the Sox would pay enough to get him.  
    Granted, Burger was not a surefire solution to 3b in 2020, and that was before his injury. Now he's almost a non-factor for 2020. Yolmer probably doesn't hit enough to be the regular 3bman and they aren't likely to switch Moncada to 3b and put Sanchez back at 2b like they should. So yeah, Moustakas made some sense at a low price.

    But he's only low $$ this year, and he probably wanted more from the Sox than he did KC.  $ 6 mil this year, but the option is $ 15 mil for 2019 and if the Sox wanted him for 2020 it's maybe $ 18-20 mil per.  Meanwhile Yolmer is $ 2.5 mil this year and arb eligible for another 3 years.  Yeah, Moose is a better bet than Yolmer at 3b, but how much better ? His WAR was 2.2 versus Yolmer's 2.1 last year (Fan Graphs WAR).   So the economics probably didn't add up. 

    Meanwhile Machado is available next year, and if the SS experiment doesn't go all that well this year, he could go back to 3b.   Josh Donaldson is available, and there's always the trade market. Plus at least you can still find out if Yolmer can hit enough to still merit a starting job in 2019. I'd say the odds of that are less than 50-50.  But then again, Moose as a 2 WAR guy isn't a big enough difference-maker to lose sleep over for not coming to Chicago. 
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Moose signing but not with Sox

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:53 am

    rmapasad wrote:


    Understand the logic but it had some assumptions that might not work.

    Not everything goes as plan.  for example, Kopech can join Rodon as injury prone and Jiminez can be spanish for Daryl Boston.  These two will set you back.  But then waiting for this not to happen also sets you back

      If Moose came to the Sox, Sanchez's trade value would go to nil as a utility guy.

    Not true.  GM's get players based on talent and Sanchez talent doesn't disappear

      And who knows whether Machado is a good SS or not. Or whether the Sox would pay enough to get him.  

    Not to mention the cost if they did.  So yes, you are correct about the financial albatross

    Granted, Burger was not a surefire solution to 3b in 2020, and that was before his injury. Now he's almost a non-factor for 2020. Yolmer probably doesn't hit enough to be the regular 3bman and they aren't likely to switch Moncada to 3b and put Sanchez back at 2b like they should. So yeah, Moustakas made some sense at a low price.

    So the real problem is the lack of respect for Yolmers glove

    But he's only low $$ this year, and he probably wanted more from the Sox than he did KC.  $ 6 mil this year, but the option is $ 15 mil for 2019 and if the Sox wanted him for 2020 it's maybe $ 18-20 mil per.

    I wrote 3M b4 the sigining and already factored in this a the price of the Mouse

      Meanwhile Yolmer is $ 2.5 mil this year and arb eligible for another 3 years.  Yeah, Moose is a better bet than Yolmer at 3b, but how much better ? His WAR was 2.2 versus Yolmer's 2.1 last year (Fan Graphs WAR).   So the economics probably didn't add up. 

    Meanwhile Machado is available next year, and if the SS experiment doesn't go all that well this year, he could go back to 3b.   Josh Donaldson is available, and there's always the trade market. Plus at least you can still find out if Yolmer can hit enough to still merit a starting job in 2019. I'd say the odds of that are less than 50-50.  But then again, Moose as a 2 WAR guy isn't a big enough difference-maker to lose sleep over for not coming to Chicago. 

    OK, YOU GOT ME.  3M is basically arm chair GM fantasy league bar talk.




    OUR White Sox are better off flip flopping Yolmer and Yoan, enjoying Yolmers gold glove and forgetting about Davidson's biweekly HR.  Hopefully Yoan can become a gold glover or close to it at 3B.  Dito Anderson at SS, he certainly has the tools.




    On that vain, OUR White Sox need to be stock piling the cash because these blue chip superstars will be demanding it shortly.  Hopefully with Avisail Garcia as he once again battles for the batting title

    ****************

    Maybe in saying their is no logic to the Mouse, maybe you should say the case against him is stronger

    geek

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