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    The dreaded gay cake

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    Soxillinirob
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    The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:19 pm

    I bring this up because it's in the SCOTUS today.  

    Sounds like the gay couple wanted a standard cake, and not a special kind of cake with swirlies and rainbows and so forth.  Witnesses claimed they just wanted to order a regular wedding cake.  No special wording or funny business.  The baker claims every cake is a work of art and that baking the cake for the gays would be an infringement upon his artistic expression.  I believe that prior rulings were such that asking the company to put wording or pictures on the cake that speak to their gayness could be considered a protected right (i.e. a Jew couldn't be made to bake a KKK cake with a Nazi symbol on it).  

    Apparently the owner cited their gayness as to why he'd not bake the cake.  I believe shops say they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.  Maybe the guy should have just said I don't want to bake your cake.  Period.  No reason given.  Don't wanna do it.  

    Personally, I'm ok with allowing the right to associate with whomever, even if it means refusing service to gays.  Mind you, it's a deplorable stance to take (to deny them service), but if left to me, I'd allow people to associate with whomever they wish.

    The laws differ from me and I suspect that this baker's refusal is pretty textbook discrimination.  They wanted a regular cake.  Not a special expression of the guy's artistic feelings.  If I go to Hooters and order wings...just the regular ones on the menu, then I expect the wings.  If I want the cook to make me some very special, gay wings, then he can probably refuse my order.  If the baker offers specific kinds of cakes and they can be chosen from a catalog or a list of cake types, then he's probably in a bad place.  

    All that said, anything is possible now that there's a justice that appears even more right wing than Scalia was.
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    alohafri
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by alohafri on Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:35 am

    I have read where this baker, before this, had been approached about baking cakes for Halloween (which he refused because it went against his religious beliefs), a Satanic cake (which he refused because it went against his religious beliefs), and a cake for an anti-gay group function (which he refused because it went against his religious beliefs). But he has made birthday cakes for gay individuals. This guy isn't the Westboro Baptist Church


    It certainly raises interesting issues. If this case goes in favor of the plaintiffs, does that mean Jewish bakers will have to bake cakes for a Nazi rally or will a black baker have to bake cakes for a Klan rally? You know there are people out there who will test this out.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:19 am

    Too much gray area.  It just seems too tricky to try policing this.  Honestly, WTF is a satanic cake?  Was he asked to draw an icing-rendering of satan or something?  What is a Halloween cake?  And seriously, there are anti-gay groups?  And they have functions?  What does an anti-gay group even do?  Sit around and find newer and better ways to discriminate?  Figure out how to convert the gay out of the gay people?  I would think that if I needed to order a cake for my gay-hating group, I'd go into the store and ask for a cake type 47h out of the catalog with chocolate frosting and then take it to my gay haters group and we'd enjoy some cake.  if they're asking for something on the cake that says gays suck (no pun intended), or Halloween is awesome, or Nazis Rock, I believe previous court cases have spoken to this and protected shop owners from being required to include any type of expression on top of the cake.  The law probably says you just gotta make the fucking cake and move onto the next one.  

    On a separate note, I can't imagine sitting around discerning whether to make a cake for someone because his religion is out of tune with mine.  

    I still say I'd be ok going back to full freedom of association.  It would get ugly, but it would allow for us to just decide for ourselves instead of having a court try deciding whether to make a gay cake.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:26 am

    alohafri wrote:This guy isn't the Westboro Baptist Church

    Yeah, I know he's not your run of the mill extremist nutcase.  I gathered that from listening to explanations about the proceedings.  On that front, if a gay couple wants a standard cake, right out of the catalog, I don't see how that's any different from a gay couple ordering a couple of steaks at Applebee's and the cook saying "I ain't cooking for no homos....it's against my religion."  If the wanted some kind of gay rainbows or a rendering of one guy bending the other guy over, maybe he could argue that it truly is a "gay cake."  

    It befuddles me that any business owner would waste energy picking and choosing instead of just baking the cake and sending them on their way.  Is there any religion that asserts that adherents ought to refuse to sell goods and services to gay people?  Or that asserts that we must act toward them in a way that doesn't confuse them into thinking we approve of their gayness?
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:48 am

    And when I mention it's a really gray issue, wouldn't allowing the baker to not bake a gay cake allow me to not back a black cake?  Can't I then claim that I have a deeply held religious belief that black folks are evil?  Didn't the Mormons hold a similar position until about 45 yrs ago?  If we can pick and choose who to serve on religious grounds, then that's probably a dangerous can of worms for the courts to cut open.  Sarah Huckleberry Sandbag yesterday said she thinks it's ok for a cake shop to just put a sign in the window that says we don't bake gay wedding cakes.  I suspect that if you can do that, you can refuse to bake black wedding cakes, or Jewish Bah Mitzvah cakes, all on the premise of having a strongly held religious belief.  If we're going to allow some discerning about who to serve, we might as well allow complete freedom.
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    alohafri
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by alohafri on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:54 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    alohafri wrote:This guy isn't the Westboro Baptist Church

    Yeah, I know he's not your run of the mill extremist nutcase.  I gathered that from listening to explanations about the proceedings.  On that front, if a gay couple wants a standard cake, right out of the catalog, I don't see how that's any different from a gay couple ordering a couple of steaks at Applebee's and the cook saying "I ain't cooking for no homos....it's against my religion."  If the wanted some kind of gay rainbows or a rendering of one guy bending the other guy over, maybe he could argue that it truly is a "gay cake."  

    It befuddles me that any business owner would waste energy picking and choosing instead of just baking the cake and sending them on their way.  Is there any religion that asserts that adherents ought to refuse to sell goods and services to gay people?  Or that asserts that we must act toward them in a way that doesn't confuse them into thinking we approve of their gayness?

    He is looking at it as being part of a ceremony that he is religiously opposed to, not just baking a cake. Now, the question has been raised, how "part" of the ceremony is the baker of a wedding cake? Is he just as much as part of the ceremony as the photographer? As the chef making the meal? I heard a woman who is a Catholic baker on the radio this morning commenting that she probably would have just baked the cake and wished them well. It's not like there is any writing on a wedding cake anyway, as you point out.


    And Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! Will you please warn me before typing something like this (If the wanted some kind of gay rainbows or a rendering of one guy bending the other guy over, maybe he could argue that it truly is a "gay cake."  ). I'm in class for crying out loud and I actually laughed out loud. Thankfully it's a study period.
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    alohafri
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by alohafri on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:55 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:And when I mention it's a really gray issue, wouldn't allowing the baker to not bake a gay cake allow me to not back a black cake?  

    Licorice? 
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    alohafri
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by alohafri on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:57 am

    I'll make you a cake like that for your wedding to Kark, provided you can steal him away from Todd.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:05 am

    alohafri wrote:


    He is looking at it as being part of a ceremony that he is religiously opposed to, not just baking a cake. Now, the question has been raised, how "part" of the ceremony is the baker of a wedding cake? Is he just as much as part of the ceremony as the photographer? As the chef making the meal? I heard a woman who is a Catholic baker on the radio this morning commenting that she probably would have just baked the cake and wished them well. It's not like there is any writing on a wedding cake anyway, as you point out.

    I don't believe they'd be a part of the ceremony, unless maybe they have to deliver the cake and come into the reception area to set up the cake.  Easy to imagine that in some cases, the bakery delivers and sets it up a certain way, and in other instances a member of the wedding party comes and just picks it up, pays for it, and moves along.  The Catholic person you reference above....isn't that the religious way to handle it?  "Wish them well."  Sort of along the lines of love one another.  "Hate the sin, love the sinner."  Also a line from my favorite show "Hamilton."  


    And Jesus, Mary, and Joseph! Will you please warn me before typing something like this (If the wanted some kind of gay rainbows or a rendering of one guy bending the other guy over, maybe he could argue that it truly is a "gay cake."  ). I'm in class for crying out loud and I actually laughed out loud. Thankfully it's a study period.

    I guess one sometimes forgets we're not sitting around a table in someone's basement.  
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:23 am

    It befuddles me that any business owner would waste energy picking and choosing instead of just baking the cake and sending them on their way.  Is there any religion that asserts that adherents ought to refuse to sell goods and services to gay people?  Or that asserts that we must act toward them in a way that doesn't confuse them into thinking we approve of their gayness?


    *********************************************


    A marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman for the purpose of having children.


    So refusing to bake a socalled "gay wedding cake" is clearly free speech because the refusal is saying you disagree with society redefining this sacred definition.  Therefore, being forced to bake a socalled "gay wedding cake" can be considered the same as forcing an opinion onto them.  Before this crap became politicized, I'm sure many of these Christians would have happily baked a commitment ceremony cake.  


    BTW, many service businesses employ the 10% rule.  That is, the fire 10% of their customers.  Customers who are typically their biggest problems.  So yes, this business owner has every right to turn down a gay couple.  A gay couple that most likely targeted him in an attempt to get a sympathetic court rule in favor of furthering the banish of religion from the public square.  This clearly violates the 1st amendment in my not so humble, NON constitutional expert, opinion.


    PS, we as a society should be looking to encourage this sacred definition of marriage as well as making it easier to have big families.  How many married couple today have more children than the RobZ family?!?!  When the hell did 3 become such a burden?!!?  Growing up, 3 would be in the bottom half on any given block.  Today, it probably beats the whole subdivision.  Yet today, almost 3/5 of millenillals are having their one designer baby out of wedlock.  Despite my justifyably low opinion of RobZ, I would consider it a sad thing if at the end of the day, he had more children than grandchildren.  When Stanley was in scouts, one of the dads informed me he had two brothers, no sisters and his little Alex was the only grandchild, and will probably remain the only one given the age of his brothers.  Sad.  Incredibly sad.  The KARK prays to God that people will see and understand the long term dangers if this trend continues and expand.  
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by alohafri on Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:15 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:It befuddles me that any business owner would waste energy picking and choosing instead of just baking the cake and sending them on their way.  Is there any religion that asserts that adherents ought to refuse to sell goods and services to gay people?  Or that asserts that we must act toward them in a way that doesn't confuse them into thinking we approve of their gayness?


    *********************************************


    A marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman for the purpose of having children.


    So refusing to bake a socalled "gay wedding cake" is clearly free speech because the refusal is saying you disagree with society redefining this sacred definition.  Therefore, being forced to bake a socalled "gay wedding cake" can be considered the same as forcing an opinion onto them.  Before this crap became politicized, I'm sure many of these Christians would have happily baked a commitment ceremony cake.  


    BTW, many service businesses employ the 10% rule.  That is, the fire 10% of their customers.  Customers who are typically their biggest problems.  So yes, this business owner has every right to turn down a gay couple.  A gay couple that most likely targeted him in an attempt to get a sympathetic court rule in favor of furthering the banish of religion from the public square.  This clearly violates the 1st amendment in my not so humble, NON constitutional expert, opinion.


    PS, we as a society should be looking to encourage this sacred definition of marriage as well as making it easier to have big families.  How many married couple today have more children than the RobZ family?!?!  When the hell did 3 become such a burden?!!?  Growing up, 3 would be in the bottom half on any given block.  Today, it probably beats the whole subdivision.  Yet today, almost 3/5 of millenillals are having their one designer baby out of wedlock.  Despite my justifyably low opinion of RobZ, I would consider it a sad thing if at the end of the day, he had more children than grandchildren.  When Stanley was in scouts, one of the dads informed me he had two brothers, no sisters and his little Alex was the only grandchild, and will probably remain the only one given the age of his brothers.  Sad.  Incredibly sad.  The KARK prays to God that people will see and understand the long term dangers if this trend continues and expand.  

    Why do you have only two?
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:08 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:It befuddles me that any business owner would waste energy picking and choosing instead of just baking the cake and sending them on their way.  Is there any religion that asserts that adherents ought to refuse to sell goods and services to gay people?  Or that asserts that we must act toward them in a way that doesn't confuse them into thinking we approve of their gayness?


    *********************************************


    A marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman for the purpose of having children.


    So refusing to bake a socalled "gay wedding cake" is clearly free speech because the refusal is saying you disagree with society redefining this sacred definition.  Therefore, being forced to bake a socalled "gay wedding cake" can be considered the same as forcing an opinion onto them.  Before this crap became politicized, I'm sure many of these Christians would have happily baked a commitment ceremony cake.  

    As long as the next bakery down the block can turn you down for being a "Christian" and the next guy can turn someone down for being black, then I can live with allowing each their freedom of speech.  One can easily imagine a religion that views blacks or Muslims or Christians as being in contrast with the deeply held beliefs of their particular religion...the same as gay people.
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:33 am

    As long as the next bakery down the block can turn you down for being a "Christian" and the next guy can turn someone down for being black, then I can live with allowing each their freedom of speech.  One can easily imagine a religion that views blacks or Muslims or Christians as being in contrast with the deeply held beliefs of their particular religion...the same as gay people.

    **********************************


    False argument


    the issue isn't the cake.  the issue is Christians being forced to do something against their deeply held religious beliefs.  what you have conventiently left out of this conversation is that this owner was forced to also attend some kind of training which is nothing more than anti-christian indoctrination.  Tell me how that is right Mr pro freedom?


    another thing.  there is no such religious belief that states blacks can't eat in restaurants.  anybody that claims there that there is , is making it up.  there is a deepely held believe, both religious and otherwise, that the traditional family is an essential building block of society and that redefining marriage will be a detriment to that building block.  That is the reason many of these Christians are refusing to take part in these socalled gay weddings.
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:37 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:As long as the next bakery down the block can turn you down for being a "Christian" and the next guy can turn someone down for being black, then I can live with allowing each their freedom of speech.  One can easily imagine a religion that views blacks or Muslims or Christians as being in contrast with the deeply held beliefs of their particular religion...the same as gay people.

    **********************************
    False argument

    the issue isn't the cake.  the issue is Christians being forced to do something against their deeply held religious beliefs.  what you have conventiently left out of this conversation is that this owner was forced to also attend some kind of training which is nothing more than anti-christian indoctrination.  Tell me how that is right Mr pro freedom?


    another thing.  there is no such religious belief that states blacks can't eat in restaurants.  anybody that claims there that there is , is making it up.  there is a deepely held believe, both religious and otherwise, that the traditional family is an essential building block of society and that redefining marriage will be a detriment to that building block.  That is the reason many of these Christians are refusing to take part in these socalled gay weddings.
     Agreed that it's not about the cake.  It's about free speech and doing something against one's "Deeply Held Religious Beliefs."  All I'm asking is what if my deeply held religious belief is such that black folks are evil?  Or that Christians support pedophilia, and that's against my religion so I can't serve those folks?  I mean, fair is fair.  If we're going to allow a baker to pick and choose according to his Bible, then I can pick and choose according to mine.  Period.
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:40 am

    Why do you have only two?


    **********************************


    Late start

    Not realizing the importance of a large family until after 40


    Growing up a leftwing hedonist where everything was party party party.  Believing the leftwing lie that children are a buzzkill and bad for the planet

    I wish I would have meet my wife 10 years earlier.  then I could have 2 Stans and 2 Megans.  Probably would had had a 5th child when the oldest Megan turned 14.  then she would have a practice baby to get her ready for marriage to some Roy Moore type right after high school graduation.
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:42 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    another thing.  there is no such religious belief that states blacks can't eat in restaurants.  anybody that claims there that there is , is making it up.  there is a deepely held believe, both religious and otherwise, that the traditional family is an essential building block of society and that redefining marriage will be a detriment to that building block.  That is the reason many of these Christians are refusing to take part in these socalled gay weddings.

    There's also no religious belief that gay folks can't buy a cake.  I agree with you that there's no religious belief about blacks.  The stuff about denying a gay cake is just someone inserting their personal bigotries into their religion to justify not serving a gay person.  The Bible doesn't say we can't bake gays a cake, or give them some kind of service.  It only says we are to kill them, and we don't appear to be currently following that rule.  

    If someone can somehow twist the words of their Bible to say gays can't buy a cake, then the next guy can make a similar case that his Bible insists he cannot serve a black person, or a KKK member, or a Christian.
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:49 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:As long as the next bakery down the block can turn you down for being a "Christian" and the next guy can turn someone down for being black, then I can live with allowing each their freedom of speech.  One can easily imagine a religion that views blacks or Muslims or Christians as being in contrast with the deeply held beliefs of their particular religion...the same as gay people.

    **********************************
    False argument

    the issue isn't the cake.  the issue is Christians being forced to do something against their deeply held religious beliefs.  what you have conventiently left out of this conversation is that this owner was forced to also attend some kind of training which is nothing more than anti-christian indoctrination.  Tell me how that is right Mr pro freedom?


    another thing.  there is no such religious belief that states blacks can't eat in restaurants.  anybody that claims there that there is , is making it up.  there is a deepely held believe, both religious and otherwise, that the traditional family is an essential building block of society and that redefining marriage will be a detriment to that building block.  That is the reason many of these Christians are refusing to take part in these socalled gay weddings.
     Agreed that it's not about the cake.  It's about free speech and doing something against one's "Deeply Held Religious Beliefs."  All I'm asking is what if my deeply held religious belief is such that black folks are evil?  Or that Christians support pedophilia, and that's against my religion so I can't serve those folks?  I mean, fair is fair.  If we're going to allow a baker to pick and choose according to his Bible, then I can pick and choose according to mine.  Period.



    Not all things are morally relative


    In a sane world, people can tell the difference.


    But than, you and your kind believe a white man and simply claim he's a black woman and now we all have to call him Kizzy instead of throwing the fruit loop in an institution where he belongs


    So again, spare me the false argument of what's in your imaginary Bible.  Because anybody truly following the implications of this understand its an outright attack on Christians.  


    It is people like me that are the truly tolerant ones.  I'm all for gay people living whatever lifestyle they choose.  But they have ZERO right, ZERO right, to redefine society in a manner that only benefits them, and is a detriment to everybody else, because they refuse to live a normal life.  and I have ZERO Obligation to cater to their desire to be different.  so get off your high horse.  You ain't fooling anybody


    Last edited by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:03 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    another thing.  there is no such religious belief that states blacks can't eat in restaurants.  anybody that claims there that there is , is making it up.  there is a deepely held believe, both religious and otherwise, that the traditional family is an essential building block of society and that redefining marriage will be a detriment to that building block.  That is the reason many of these Christians are refusing to take part in these socalled gay weddings.

    There's also no religious belief that gay folks can't buy a cake.  I agree with you that there's no religious belief about blacks.  The stuff about denying a gay cake is just someone inserting their personal bigotries into their religion to justify not serving a gay person.  The Bible doesn't say we can't bake gays a cake, or give them some kind of service.  It only says we are to kill them, and we don't appear to be currently following that rule.  

    If someone can somehow twist the words of their Bible to say gays can't buy a cake, then the next guy can make a similar case that his Bible insists he cannot serve a black person, or a KKK member, or a Christian.


    Wrong again


    the fact that you use the word bigotry just shows how biased you really are, and to support your ridiculous straw man arguments


    and again you misrepresent what is actually happening.


    the man refused to make them a wedding cake because of how politicize the issue had become.  the man had no problem making cakes for gay birthdays or serving gays a cake for a simple after dinner dessert.  Plus he was most likely targeted because of his beliefs.  so is that what you want.  A political and religious test for every damn thing under the sun.  then the targeting of those who don't conform.  Because that is exactly what you are advocating


    Not to mention how you deliberately distort the argument with your phony biblical analogy.  Nobody here has every claimed the US gov should strictly follow the Bible.  So it is intellectual dishonest of you to keep making it a point.


    ************************


    Hey Rob


    I open up a coffee shop in Champaign and call it the Conservative Cafe.  Do people have a right to picket my business or is that blatant harassment born out of intolerance which infringes upon my right to earn a living?!?!?!?  Not to mention the rights of conservative customers who enjoy having a place to meet fellow like minded people.  Funny how you never see this slippery slope.  Yet the intimidation and silencing of those who do not "believe correctly" happens all over colleges today and has been happen for quite sometime.


    That analogy is the heart of this issue.  Not your phony idea that the KKK is a legitimate religion which it ain't
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:10 am

    As long as the next bakery down the block can turn you down for being a "Christian"


    **********************************************************************


    If "Robs house of queer cakes and perverted pastries" declined to make a communion cake, I doubt you'd be dragged into court and forced to undergo sensitivity training designed to convince you that God is great.


    Nor should you be


    And yes, I'm am quite certain that there are parts of town that could use a perverted pastries bakery.  and they should stay in that part of town and out of mine
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:20 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:

    Not all things are morally relative


    In a sane world, people can tell the difference.


    But than, you and your kind believe a white man and simply claim he's a black woman and now we all have to call him Kizzy instead of throwing the fruit loop in an institution where he belongs


    So again, spare me the false argument of what's in your imaginary Bible.  Because anybody truly following the implications of this understand its an outright attack on Christians.  


    It is people like me that are the truly tolerant ones.  I'm all for gay people living whatever lifestyle they choose.  But they have ZERO right, ZERO right, to redefine society in a manner that only benefits them, and is a detriment to everybody else, because they refuse to live a normal life.  and I have ZERO Obligation to cater to their desire to be different.  so get off your high horse.  You ain't fooling anybody

    I don't recall anything in the Bible about birth control or abortion, but it's magically protected thanks to SCOTUS.  So basically, a religion just sort of made up that facet of their religion.  Now granted, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the Catholics (or any religion) choosing to believe in God in whatever way they feel keeps them on their religious paths. And if the Pope wants to declare birth control to be wrong, and abortion to be wrong, then I salute that and will respect that.  But I, or the next guy, can also conjure up whatever the fuck kind of rules I/he wants to govern his religion.  And his religion doesn't need to have your endorsement on a message board, or have the blessing of the president.  My religion of one person (me) is just as privy to rights and freedoms as your religion of a billion people.

    If we're going to open the can of worms of allowing certain kinds of discrimination, then we're ultimately going to be having to defend why all kinds aren't allowed.  Doesn't matter if you like it or not.  Or if I like it.  If the baker is allowed to ban gay cakes, prepare to see each and every possible and plausible type of challenge come to SCOTUS.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:22 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:

    Wrong again


    the fact that you use the word bigotry just shows how biased you really are, and to support your ridiculous straw man arguments

    Strikes me lately that the word bigotry has been often and conveniently replaced by Deeply Held Religious Beliefs in an effort to hide one's bigotry behind their Bible or Koran, or whatever book they want to claim justifies their desire to discriminate.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:24 am

    No.  I want for all private enterprises to have the right to serve whomever the hell they want.  That way there's no religious, political, or any other kind of test.  Drop all of these laws and just let private business serve who they want to serve.
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    alohafri
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by alohafri on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:32 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:

    I don't recall anything in the Bible about birth control or abortion, 

    Commandment #6.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:48 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:

    That analogy is the heart of this issue.  Not your phony idea that the KKK is a legitimate religion which it ain't

    What in the hell are you talking about?  The KKK as a legitimate religion?  No.  My point is that if my religion finds KKK folks to be anti-religious, or to be against my basic religious beliefs, why couldn't I use my deeply held religious beliefs to refuse to serve them?  You can deny a gay person for defying your beliefs.  KKK isn't a religion any more than homosexuality isn't a religion.  Deeply held religious belief (in this situation) is another way of saying I want to discriminate against these people and deny them basic rights or services.  Fine if you want to deny me service, as long as I have the same right to deny who I wish.  Citing religion as a reason is subjective and abstract, and why can't I have my own subjective and abstract religious beliefs?
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:49 am

    alohafri wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:

    I don't recall anything in the Bible about birth control or abortion, 

    Commandment #6.

    Thou shall not wear a rubber or use the birth control pill?  Actually, there is a passage or two in the Bible that explains how to undue an unwanted pregnancy.  I had it read to me once or twice.

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    Re: The dreaded gay cake

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