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    Traded Quintana at the right time

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    rmapasad
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    Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by rmapasad on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:47 pm

    <<Jose Quintana allowed four runs - three earned - with six hits, a walk and three strikeouts over six innings in a loss in San Francisco on Tuesday.


    It looks like the honeymoon is over for Quintana, as he has allowed nine earned runs, 12 hits and four homers over 11 innings across his past two outings, and he hasn't won in three outings since July 23. He has a 4.20 ERA in five outings since coming over from the White Sox, which isn't far off from his 4.42 ERA overall on the season. Basically, this is about as good as you can expect from the left-hander.>>>

    Thankfully for the Sox, Quintana had a nice run from early June to early July (2.70 ERA) where he looked like the old Quintana of 2014-2106 rather than the new Q who had a 5.60 ERA on Memorial Day.  Cubs are now seeing what the Sox saw this year - flashes of the old Q mixed in with too many shaky outings.
    Glad the "hold onto Quintana for the long haul" voices were drowned out and the Sox decided to get a good haul for him while the getting was still good. 

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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:29 pm

    Not sure if anybody was in the keep him for the long haul crowd.  More like people were in the don't give him away crowd.  Considering how similar the trade was to the Sale deal, Hahn did a great job.
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:24 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:Not sure if anybody was in the keep him for the long haul crowd.  More like people were in the don't give him away crowd.  Considering how similar the trade was to the Sale deal, Hahn did a great job.

    Recall a certain amount of sentiment that Q should be held longer term (team friendly contract, etc) unless the Sox got an overwhelming offer. Hahn himself said that a couple times. Sure, some of that was trade posturing but IMO the Sox still considered that a legit option..
    So it may look in hindsight that Hahn had a great strategy in waiting until the perfect offer came along.  But I don't think his strategy was vindicated because it had actually backfired when Q's ERA stood at 5.60 on Memorial Day.  It took two pieces of very good fortune to turn that around. One was that Q was brilliant in June, which made it appear he had gotten his mojo back.  Second, was that the perfect win-now trade partner who had a ton of disposable young hitting talent had hit the skids in the NL Central race and was desperate for pitching.

    I credit Hahn for a) recognizing that it was time to deal Quintana and take no further risks of injury or going in the toilet again. and b)
    recognizing he had a semi-desperate trade partner who he could grind for more than the Quintana of July 2017 was truly worth.

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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:15 am

    A)  this was an overwhelming offer considering how similiar it was to the Sale deal
    B)  ever consider that Hahn made a calculated gamble that the heat of the pennant race would make others more eager to trade?
    C)  Quintana was a legit piece of the rebuilding team given his age and contract, he was moved for an even bigger piece
    D)  You act like there was a better deal available earlier which clearly there was not
    E)  I'm sure Hahn appreciates you giving him credit for doing what was blatantly obvious
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by alohafri on Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:39 am

    I know a few cub fans who aren't too happy right now.
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:26 am

    Cubsessing is ridiculous.
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:51 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:A)  this was an overwhelming offer considering how similiar it was to the Sale deal
    B)  ever consider that Hahn made a calculated gamble that the heat of the pennant race would make others more eager to trade?
    C)  Quintana was a legit piece of the rebuilding team given his age and contract, he was moved for an even bigger piece
    D)  You act like there was a better deal available earlier which clearly there was not
    E)  I'm sure Hahn appreciates you giving him credit for doing what was blatantly obvious


    A-   Sale should have drawn more and he did as Moncada/Kopech were much closer to the
    majors than Jiminez/Cease.  But I'd say the perceived value of the prospects was pretty close to the Sale deal. Considering Q's iffiness this year, he should have drawn a LOT less than Sale who's been miles better. So yes, the Sox got away with something on this Q deal.
    Speaks to the Cubs' desperation to make the playoffs this year.

    B- Hahn correctly gambled that teams would have a midseason demand for pitching but Quintana made that gamble look foolish in April and May.  Q's fortunate recovery in June bailed Hahn out and I think Hahn realized that. I bet he was cranking the phones hard to make sure Quintana was going somewhere in July.

    C - If Quintana was the same pitcher he was from 2014-2016, yes he was a legit piece of a rebuilding team due to age/contract.  But the cracks he showed this year meant he may not be that pitcher anymore.  So get his ass out of town while he still was basking in some of the 2014-2016 glow and before he clearly proves he's turned into a mediocre pitcher now.

    D- We don't know what deals were available before the year.  Some of the names were much closer to major-league ready and more tested in the upper minors.  Means they might have been ready in 2019 where a Jiminez probably won't be until 2020-2021.  But that made him more dispensable to a team like the Cubs who are focused on 2017-2019.
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:10 am

    alohafri wrote:I know a few cub fans who aren't too happy right now.

    If they make the playoffs, and get to the Series again, all will be well.
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:55 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:A)  this was an overwhelming offer considering how similiar it was to the Sale deal
    B)  ever consider that Hahn made a calculated gamble that the heat of the pennant race would make others more eager to trade?
    C)  Quintana was a legit piece of the rebuilding team given his age and contract, he was moved for an even bigger piece
    D)  You act like there was a better deal available earlier which clearly there was not
    E)  I'm sure Hahn appreciates you giving him credit for doing what was blatantly obvious


    A-   Sale should have drawn more and he did as Moncada/Kopech were much closer to the
    majors than Jiminez/Cease.  But I'd say the perceived value of the prospects was pretty close to the Sale deal. Considering Q's iffiness this year, he should have drawn a LOT less than Sale who's been miles better. So yes, the Sox got away with something on this Q deal.
    Speaks to the Cubs' desperation to make the playoffs this year.

    B- Hahn correctly gambled that teams would have a midseason demand for pitching but Quintana made that gamble look foolish in April and May.  Q's fortunate recovery in June bailed Hahn out and I think Hahn realized that. I bet he was cranking the phones hard to make sure Quintana was going somewhere in July.

    C - If Quintana was the same pitcher he was from 2014-2016, yes he was a legit piece of a rebuilding team due to age/contract.  But the cracks he showed this year meant he may not be that pitcher anymore.  So get his ass out of town while he still was basking in some of the 2014-2016 glow and before he clearly proves he's turned into a mediocre pitcher now.

    D- We don't know what deals were available before the year.  Some of the names were much closer to major-league ready and more tested in the upper minors.  Means they might have been ready in 2019 where a Jiminez probably won't be until 2020-2021.  But that made him more dispensable to a team like the Cubs who are focused on 2017-2019.

    YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE CONVINCED THAT QUINTANA IS A STEP AWAY FROM BEING THE NEW JOHN DANKS.


    HOWEVER, AS LONG AS HE IS A CUB, IT WOULD BE A GREAT THING IF THIS TURNS OUT TO BE ANOTHER BROCK FOR BROGLIO DEAL.
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:00 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    alohafri wrote:I know a few cub fans who aren't too happy right now.

    If they make the playoffs, and get to the Series again, all will be well.


    UNTIL JIMINEZ TURNS INTO $amME $O$O, BUT ON NATURAL ABILITY INSTEAD OF STERIODS.


    WILLY, MICKEY, AND THE DUKE ARE GOING TO MAKE THE WHITE SOX THE TEAM TO BEAT IN THE ROARING 20'S


    CUBS ARE ONE AND DONE.  2017 IS THE LAST HURRAH.  THE PITCHING DISAPPEARS THIS WINTER
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:44 pm

    The Sox have just as many idiot fans as the Cubs.  Mopes like George Bova, Richard Lindberg and Simpleton Murph worried about giving comfort and aid to the ENEMY Cubs.


    Matt Karchner for Jon Garland worked out well for the Sox.


    Quintana is a #4 or #5 starter on a good pitching staff.  PERIOD.
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:30 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:A)  this was an overwhelming offer considering how similiar it was to the Sale deal
    B)  ever consider that Hahn made a calculated gamble that the heat of the pennant race would make others more eager to trade?
    C)  Quintana was a legit piece of the rebuilding team given his age and contract, he was moved for an even bigger piece
    D)  You act like there was a better deal available earlier which clearly there was not
    E)  I'm sure Hahn appreciates you giving him credit for doing what was blatantly obvious


    A-   Sale should have drawn more and he did as Moncada/Kopech were much closer to the
    majors than Jiminez/Cease.  But I'd say the perceived value of the prospects was pretty close to the Sale deal. Considering Q's iffiness this year, he should have drawn a LOT less than Sale who's been miles better. So yes, the Sox got away with something on this Q deal.
    Speaks to the Cubs' desperation to make the playoffs this year.

    B- Hahn correctly gambled that teams would have a midseason demand for pitching but Quintana made that gamble look foolish in April and May.  Q's fortunate recovery in June bailed Hahn out and I think Hahn realized that. I bet he was cranking the phones hard to make sure Quintana was going somewhere in July.

    C - If Quintana was the same pitcher he was from 2014-2016, yes he was a legit piece of a rebuilding team due to age/contract.  But the cracks he showed this year meant he may not be that pitcher anymore.  So get his ass out of town while he still was basking in some of the 2014-2016 glow and before he clearly proves he's turned into a mediocre pitcher now.

    D- We don't know what deals were available before the year.  Some of the names were much closer to major-league ready and more tested in the upper minors.  Means they might have been ready in 2019 where a Jiminez probably won't be until 2020-2021.  But that made him more dispensable to a team like the Cubs who are focused on 2017-2019.

    YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE CONVINCED THAT QUINTANA IS A STEP AWAY FROM BEING THE NEW JOHN DANKS.


    HOWEVER, AS LONG AS HE IS A CUB, IT WOULD BE A GREAT THING IF THIS TURNS OUT TO BE ANOTHER BROCK FOR BROGLIO DEAL.

    I don't think Quintana will slip into Danks' death spiral.. First of all, Quintana was a better pitcher at his peak. Second, Quintana hasn't succumbed to an arm injury like Danks, and Johnny D was a # 5 pitcher after that injury.  Unfortunately he was being paid like a # 1 or 2 .   I see Quintana as an OK # 3 or an excellent  # 4 starting pitcher.  Plus he's being paid like a # 3 or 4. and they have no financial obligation after 2018 if he's fallen into the ditch by then.. They might have been hoping for the Quintana of old but they needed a solid guy to plug a rotation hole this year and next.   So all in all, Cubs didn't get a pig in a poke.  
    But was Quintana worth Jiminez and Cease ?  Not if Jiminez keeps going on same path as first 100 ab's in high A for the Sox, (371/429/704).  Should get moved up to AA soon as he doesn't have anything left to prove in A ball.  Could be in a few years the Cubs will regret having dealt him away for mid-rotation starter.  But their horizon is 2017-2019 so they were willing to mortgage some future for that.. 
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:00 pm

    I don't think Quintana will slip into Danks' death spiral.




    I CLEARLY RECALL YOU HINTING AT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO
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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:42 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:I don't think Quintana will slip into Danks' death spiral.




    I CLEARLY RECALL YOU HINTING AT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO

    Correct.  Hinted that like Danks in 2011/early 2012 there might be an injury lurking behind Quintana's results this year.  If so, then Q could seriously tumble like Danks did post-injury.

    But since Q was a better pitcher at his peak than Danks, even a serious fallback due to injury might not make him quite as unreliable as Danks' 2014-2016.  Of course, Quintana hasn't gotten injured yet.   So unless he does, he's basically gone from a strong #2 starter to
    a # 3 or # 4 type which is still useful. 




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    Re: Traded Quintana at the right time

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:08 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:I don't think Quintana will slip into Danks' death spiral.




    I CLEARLY RECALL YOU HINTING AT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO

    Correct.  Hinted that like Danks in 2011/early 2012 there might be an injury lurking behind Quintana's results this year.  If so, then Q could seriously tumble like Danks did post-injury.

    But since Q was a better pitcher at his peak than Danks, even a serious fallback due to injury might not make him quite as unreliable as Danks' 2014-2016.  Of course, Quintana hasn't gotten injured yet.   So unless he does, he's basically gone from a strong #2 starter to
    a # 3 or # 4 type which is still useful. 






    SEE, I DO REMEMBER

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