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    Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:41 am

    White Sox sent OF Rymer Liriano outright to Triple-A Charlotte.
    There were certainly spots available to Liriano this spring, but he hit only .170/.264/.340. The 25-year-old missed all of last season after suffering multiple facial fractures when he was hit by a pitch in spring training and it seems like a long time ago that he was considered a top prospect.>>

    Wasn't sure the Sox could send Liriano down without passing him through waivers, but with his bad ST doubtful any other team would add him to their 25 man roster. So it appears he'll get one last shot at redemption in AAA.  His 42% K rate this spring was the worst on a team that already has big whiff guys like Frazier, Anderson, Avi Garcia, Davidson, and Asche.   Looks like Asche and Davidson will share DH duties and Jacob May will be the starting CFer with Leury Garcia backing him up as 4th Ofer.   Pretty weak defensive (and offensive) OF with him, Avi Garcia and Cabrera. May's defense may be OK in time but he has no familiarity with major league hitters so flyballs out there will be an adventure for a while. 
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:13 am

    Doubt it's his last shot.  Granted the longer he stays in AAA the less likely he'll resemble anything close to the player that made him the 50th best prospect in the game 5 years ago.  But then, getting your face shattered isn't quite the same as blowing out a quad.  Lord knows what that did to his vision.  Not to mention the trauma

    But as for as last shot, I'm sure he can get a AAA contract until he's at least 30.
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:40 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:Doubt it's his last shot.  Granted the longer he stays in AAA the less likely he'll resemble anything close to the player that made him the 50th best prospect in the game 5 years ago.  But then, getting your face shattered isn't quite the same as blowing out a quad.  Lord knows what that did to his vision.  Not to mention the trauma
    But as for as last shot, I'm sure he can get a AAA contract until he's at least 30.

    His story is like a lot of guys.  Great speed, OK plate discipline, signs of developing power in low A as a 20 year old - gets him listed in BA Top 100 prospects. Then tails off as he goes up the chain. Only hit .260-ish in AA.  He tore up in his first time in AAA but it was phony -.453 BA in 70 ab's without hitting a single HR. Then he got the call to majors and fell flat (555 OPS).
    Yeah, his  856 OPS next year in AAA in 2015 was solid but in was in a good hitting environment and his power never got better.   Only 14 HR's in 550 PA's. That's why the PAds let him go.  With his speed only a fraction of what is was 5-6 years ago, modest power and average defense not a lot to get excited about.
    MAybe all his strikeouts this spring were from trying too hard to prove himself.  Sure, Liriano still has better speed, defense and plate discipline than Garcia.  But he ain't gonna get any faster in his late 20's and like Garcia he needs to develop power to stay on the radar.  If all he can do is hit .270 -.280 with a dozen HR's in AAA, his blip on that screen gets smaller and smaller. 
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:33 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:Doubt it's his last shot.  Granted the longer he stays in AAA the less likely he'll resemble anything close to the player that made him the 50th best prospect in the game 5 years ago.  But then, getting your face shattered isn't quite the same as blowing out a quad.  Lord knows what that did to his vision.  Not to mention the trauma
    But as for as last shot, I'm sure he can get a AAA contract until he's at least 30.

    His story is like a lot of guys.  Great speed, OK plate discipline, signs of developing power in low A as a 20 year old - gets him listed in BA Top 100 prospects. Then tails off as he goes up the chain. Only hit .260-ish in AA.  He tore up in his first time in AAA but it was phony -.453 BA in 70 ab's without hitting a single HR. Then he got the call to majors and fell flat (555 OPS).
    Yeah, his  856 OPS next year in AAA in 2015 was solid but in was in a good hitting environment and his power never got better.   Only 14 HR's in 550 PA's. That's why the PAds let him go.  With his speed only a fraction of what is was 5-6 years ago, modest power and average defense not a lot to get excited about.
    MAybe all his strikeouts this spring were from trying too hard to prove himself.  Sure, Liriano still has better speed, defense and plate discipline than Garcia.  But he ain't gonna get any faster in his late 20's and like Garcia he needs to develop power to stay on the radar.  If all he can do is hit .270 -.280 with a dozen HR's in AAA, his blip on that screen gets smaller and smaller. 


    Your above post is why I get pissed off at you.


    He didn't tail off as he moved up the chain.


    He lost two seasons to serious injuries, 2013 and 2016.


    2016 was the result of having his face shattered by a pitch.


    Nowhere in your little story are injuries mentioned.


    Did you ever think that having your face shattered might have some serious reprocious?!?!?!?


    For a guy that acts like he is all things Sabermetric, you sure do miss a hell of a lot.  Maybe that is why you over explain the obvious.  It must not be so obvious to you
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:43 am

    Seriously Roger,

    The way you critiqued Liriano would be like the KARK critiquing the Nixon presidency and leaving out Watergate.

    XOXOXOXO
    THE KARK
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:02 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    Your above post is why I get pissed off at you.He didn't tail off as he moved up the chain.He lost two seasons to serious injuries, 2013 and 2016.2016 was the result of having his face shattered by a pitch.Nowhere in your little story are injuries mentioned. wrote:Your above post is why I get pissed off at you.
    He didn't tail off as he moved up the chain.
    He lost two seasons to serious injuries, 2013 and 2016.
    2016 was the result of having his face shattered by a pitch.
    Nowhere in your little story are injuries mentioned.
    Did you ever think that having your face shattered might have some serious reprocious?!?!?!?
    For a guy that acts like he is all things Sabermetric, you sure do miss a hell of a lot.  Maybe that is why you over explain the obvious.  It must not be so obvious to you

    Once more, you need to get facts straight before making baseless insults. Liriano's career PEAKED  in Low A in 2011 (319/383/499 and 65 SB's).  He tailed off from there and that was before any injuries.

    Even in late 2011, when he got a brief promo to high A, he only hit .127.   Sure, he hit .298 in 2012 in high A (hitters' league) but speed, power and plate discipline were all off from the year before. That became even more glaring late 2012 when he got to AA and put a meager 712 OPS.

    So then he gets injured and misses all of 2013.  Comes back in 2014 in AA (777 OPS) but not as speedy or quite as plate-disciplined.  After an incredible 70 AB cup of coffee in AAA where he hits .452, he promptly hits .220 in majors with a 32% K rate.   STRIKEOUTS have been his problem ever since low A.   Strikeouts often are from not being able to handle advanced pitching as well.

    Yeah, Liriano rebounded some in 2015 in AAA but it was in a hitters' league.  Even then he never matched his peak power or speed nor kept his K rate below 20% like he did in low A in 2011.  None of this relates to injuries particularly the face-shattering which occurred in 2016.

    Did you ever think that having your face shattered might have some serious reprocious?!?!?!?

    And repercussions too.  Very Happy  Look, he made the decision to come back and play after that incident. So he's going to have to overcome that. This ain't Little League.  Did that cause him to strike out 45% of the time this spring ?
    If that came from him jumping out of the way of inside FB's and letting pitchers get called strikes on the inside corner then it's time for him to consider another line of work.
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:32 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    Your above post is why I get pissed off at you.He didn't tail off as he moved up the chain.He lost two seasons to serious injuries, 2013 and 2016.2016 was the result of having his face shattered by a pitch.Nowhere in your little story are injuries mentioned. wrote:Your above post is why I get pissed off at you.
    He didn't tail off as he moved up the chain.
    He lost two seasons to serious injuries, 2013 and 2016.
    2016 was the result of having his face shattered by a pitch.
    Nowhere in your little story are injuries mentioned.
    Did you ever think that having your face shattered might have some serious reprocious?!?!?!?
    For a guy that acts like he is all things Sabermetric, you sure do miss a hell of a lot.  Maybe that is why you over explain the obvious.  It must not be so obvious to you

    Once more, you need to get facts straight before making baseless insults. Liriano's career PEAKED  in Low A in 2011 (319/383/499 and 65 SB's).  He tailed off from there and that was before any injuries.

    Even in late 2011, when he got a brief promo to high A, he only hit .127.  

    55 AT BATS!!!!!!!  THERE AIN'T A SABRMATHTIAN ON THE PLANET THAT BASES CONCLUSIONS ON 55 AT BATS!!!!!

    Sure, he hit .298 in 2012 in high A (hitters' league) but speed, power and plate discipline were all off from the year before. That became even more glaring late 2012 when he got to AA and put a meager 712 OPS.

    HE WAS ALSO 21, 3 YEARS YOUNGER THAN THE LEAGUE AVERAGE.  PLUS ITS HILLARIOUS HOW YOU ARE NOW CALLING 712OPS MEAGER WHEN YOU CALL GARCIA'S 692OPS PASSABLE.  YOUR BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARD IS THE BASIS FOR MY FRUSTATION WITH YOU

    So then he gets injured and misses all of 2013.  Comes back in 2014 in AA (777 OPS) but not as speedy or quite as plate-disciplined.

    DUH!!!!  EVER HEAR OF RECOVERY TIME?!?!?!

      After an incredible 70 AB cup of coffee in AAA where he hits .452, he promptly hits .220 in majors with a 32% K rate.

    WOW, HE SUCKS OUT LOUD ACCORDING TO YOU ABOVE FAIRY TALE, YET THE PADRES STILL CONSIDER IT A GOOD IDEA TO CALL HIM UP.  APPARENTLY THE PADRES IN 2014 HAD A FAR HIGHER OPINION OF LIRIANO THAN YOUR MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACKING 3 YEARS LATER


       STRIKEOUTS have been his problem ever since low A.   Strikeouts often are from not being able to handle advanced pitching as well.

    APPARENTLY 132K DIDN'T HURT HIM IN 2015 WHEN HE A A 843OPS IN AAA.  


    Yeah, Liriano rebounded some in 2015 in AAA but it was in a hitters' league.

    LMAO!!!! NOW ITS A HITTERS LEAGUE THAT'S AT FAULT!!!!  WHAT, CAN'T FIND ANY INFIELD SINGLES YOU CAN DISMISS AS PHONY HITS


      Even then he never matched his peak power or speed nor kept his K rate below 20% like he did in low A in 2011.  None of this relates to injuries particularly the face-shattering which occurred in 2016.

    NONE OF THIS RELATES TO REALITY EITHER.  A SANE PERSON SEES HIS YEARLY STAT LINE AND SEES A KID THAT IS MUCH YOUNGER THAN THE TYPICALLY PLAYER IN THAT LEAGUE, STRUGGLES FOR HALF A YEAR, THAN PLAYS WELL HIS FIRST FULL YEAR


    Did you ever think that having your face shattered might have some serious reprocious?!?!?!?

    And repercussions too.  Very Happy  Look, he made the decision to come back and play after that incident. So he's going to have to overcome that. This ain't Little League.  Did that cause him to strike out 45% of the time this spring ?
    If that came from him jumping out of the way of inside FB's and letting pitchers get called strikes on the inside corner then it's time for him to consider another line of work.


    SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE HEARTLESS AND CLUELESS BASTARD


    AND AGAIN, THE REAL REASON YOU ARE A FRAUD AND A LIAR IS HOW YOU'LL INVENT SOME BULLSHIT STAT LIKE GARCIA HAS A 1 IN 5 CHANCE TO BE THE NEXT JOSE GUILLEN BASED ON ONE YEAR OF WAR, BUT TO TEAR DOWN LIRIANO, YOU LOOK AT HIS ENTIRE CAREER IN THE WORST POSSIBLE LIGHT YOU POSSIBLY CAN.  IN OTHER WORDS, YOU ARE THE WALKING EXAMPLE OF THE OLD MARK TWAIN SAYING:


    THERE ARE LIARS, DAMN LIARS, AND STATISTICS.
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:46 pm

    HE WAS ALSO 21, 3 YEARS YOUNGER THAN THE LEAGUE AVERAGE.  PLUS ITS HILLARIOUS HOW YOU ARE NOW CALLING 712OPS MEAGER WHEN YOU CALL GARCIA'S 692OPS PASSABLE.  YOUR BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARD IS THE BASIS FOR MY FRUSTATION WITH YOU  >>
    Liriano as a 21 year old in AA putting up a 712 OPS wasn't that impressive and after that 2012 season, he dropped out of BA's top 100 prospects where he had been after the 2011 season. [size=13]Yeah, he  was praised for his tools and potential and still viewed as a prospect but his over-aggressiveness at the plate and swinging at bad breaking pitches in AA got him downgraded[size=24] [size=13]and he wasn't considered as highly as the year before.[/size]
    [/size]
    [/size]


    SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE HEARTLESS AND CLUELESS BASTARD>>
    Coming from Mr. Compassion himself.  Go fuck yourself..   Look, either Liriano makes a go of it or not. If he can't cut it because his vision is screwed up or he's fearful at the plate, then his baseball career is over. Sorry for the guy, but that's just reality.  Sure missing 2013 set him back some, but guys have had to cope with injuries before and have bounced back.  Liriano's bounceback wasn't much in 2014.  At age 23 he only had a 777 OPS in AA and then he just got eaten up in majors later on[size=24] [size=13]that year. 
    [/size][/size]



    <  THERE ARE LIARS, DAMN LIARS, AND STATISTICS.>>
    Saying Guillen has a 15-20% chance of becoming a 2 WAR player is NOT a lie.  It is an OPINION.  But your character is such that a disagreement with you has always got to be answered with distorted and untruthful personal insults.  Calling someone else a "liar" when they haven't lied IS the real form of lying.  As is deliberately distorting or misrepresenting someone else's ACTUAL opinions. 
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:28 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    Sure, he hit .298 in 2012 in high A (hitters' league) but speed, power and plate discipline were all off from the year before. That became even more glaring late 2012 when he got to AA and put a meager 712 OPS.

    HE WAS ALSO 21, 3 YEARS YOUNGER THAN THE LEAGUE AVERAGE.  PLUS ITS HILLARIOUS HOW YOU ARE NOW CALLING 712OPS MEAGER WHEN YOU CALL GARCIA'S 692OPS PASSABLE.  YOUR BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARD IS THE BASIS FOR MY FRUSTATION WITH YOU

    Notice the sequence of these statements in Rotoworld:

    <<Liriano, a 20-year-old outfielder, batted .298/.365/.465 with 12 home runs, 68 RBI, 66 stolen bases and an .830 OPS over 580 plate appearances this season between Class A Fort Wayne and High-A Lake Elsinore. He was recently hyped as the organization's top prospect by new general  Manager Josh Byrnes.Fri, Nov 18, 2011 08:02:00 PM
      >> That was after 2011.

    <<Liriano, 21, is one of the toolsier prospects in baseball but has yet to put it together consistently in the minors. He batted .280/.350/.417 with eight homers and 32 steals between High- and Double-A this season.Fri, Oct 5, 2012 09:04:00 AM >>
    That was after 2012. 

    MLB Prospect Watch had Liriano as the top Padre prospect after the 2011 season and  # 51 overall in all of baseball.   After the 2012 season he had dropped to # 4 in Padres org and # 79 in all of baseball.  He hadn't dropped off the radar screen by any means, but it's fair to say he "tailed off."
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:00 pm

    APPARENTLY 132K DIDN'T HURT HIM IN 2015 WHEN HE A A 843OPS IN AAA.>>
    Apparently it didn't help him that much either as the Padres designated him for assignment after that season, and Brewers picked him up for some nobody in trade.  This was all before he got injured in ST 2016 with the Brewers. 
    Yeah, missing two of the last four seasons has set him back but whiffing at breaking balls has set him back even more.  That started before the injuries set in.


    BTW, here were two reports written about guys back in 2012, one is about Liriano, and the other about another guy we've talked a lot about (too much in fact) recently.  Guess who is A and B ?

    Shows what can happen when guys get exposed to better pitching.


    Player A -He has all the tools, from size and strength to power and his arm, to one day fit the mold of a prototypical right fielder. He runs well and has good range in right to go along with a plus arm. He needs to refine his approach at the plate to tap into his legitimate raw power. He’s the type who could excite fans with his 20-20 potential in the future

    Player B - He should develop into a prototypical right fielder with a very strong arm, the ability to drive in runs and some baserunning skills to boot.  He can hit for average and power, thanks to outstanding bat speed.
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:10 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    Sure, he hit .298 in 2012 in high A (hitters' league) but speed, power and plate discipline were all off from the year before. That became even more glaring late 2012 when he got to AA and put a meager 712 OPS.

    HE WAS ALSO 21, 3 YEARS YOUNGER THAN THE LEAGUE AVERAGE.  PLUS ITS HILLARIOUS HOW YOU ARE NOW CALLING 712OPS MEAGER WHEN YOU CALL GARCIA'S 692OPS PASSABLE.  YOUR BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARD IS THE BASIS FOR MY FRUSTATION WITH YOU

    Notice the sequence of these statements in Rotoworld:

    <
      >> That was after 2011.

    < but has yet to put it together consistently in the minors. He batted .280/.350/.417 with eight homers and 32 steals between High- and Double-A this season.Fri, Oct 5, 2012 09:04:00 AM >>
    That was after 2012. 

    MLB Prospect Watch had Liriano as the top Padre prospect after the 2011 season and  # 51 overall in all of baseball.   After the 2012 season he had dropped to # 4 in Padres org and # 79 in all of baseball.  He hadn't dropped off the radar screen by any means, but it's fair to say he "tailed off."


    SPARE ME.

    ONE SITES OPINION AND YOU ACT LIKE IT S THE BIBLE

    DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH EFFORT ROTOWORLD PUT INTO ITS ANALYSIS OR WAS IT JUST CRANKING OUT HUNDREDS OF OPINIONS THAT SOUNDED PLAUSIBLE IN ORDER TO MEET A DEADLINE.

    SO NO, ITS NOT FAIR TO SAY HE TAILED OFF.  HE HAD AN OFF YEAR, THEN LOST A SEASON, THEN REBOUNDED, THEN SUFERED A VERY SERIOUS, CAREER THREATENING INJURY.

    BUT YOUR TOO BUSY PLAYING YOUR LITTLE SEMANTIC WORD GAMES.....
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:32 am

    Here's Liriano's entire minor league career.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=lirian001rym#all_8648168425

    The pattern is obvious.  After 921OPS in rookie league, he struggled the next year in 3 different A ball leagues.  But then again, he was just a 19 year old kid from the Domican.  The next year, he had a heck of a season in the Midwest League (Aball), but struggled in 55 AB in a late season promotion to the California League (High A).
     
    The next year, which would be age 21, he had an 803OPS in the first half in the California league.  Yhe Padres were so concerned about this tail off that they awarded his inconsistancy with a promotion to Double AA.  While his 712 OPS was unimpressive, Roger has already stated that such an OPS for a young players proves he can hold his on.
     
    the next year was 2013 that he lost to injury.
     
    2014, contrary to Roger's false narrative, Liriano and his 777OPS at AA impressed the Padres org enough to promote him to AAA where his 1.182 OPS earned him a promotion to the big leagues.  So while Roger is spewing his semantic BS and cherry picking one line opinions of blogs, Liriano was earning promotions.
     
    2015, 843 OPS.  However, he was now out of options, and the Padres needed to make room for Alexei Ramirez.  Since Liriano was not ready for prime time.  They traded him.  Maybe it was for a nobody, buts it was more than what the Twins got for David Ortiz
     
    2016, Liriano suffered a career threatening injury
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:40 am

    BTW, I JUST LOVE HOW ROGER IS WILLING TO ANALYZE EVERY FREAKIN' AT BAT BY RYMER LIRIANO JUST TO DELIBERATELY DISAGREE WITH ME.

    BUT FOR HIS HERO AVISAIL GARCIA, JUST LOOKING AT THE SUCCESS RATE OF A TOP 5 DRAFT PICK WAS ENOUGH TO DECLARE HE HAD A 1 IN 4 SHOT OF MAKING IT.

    THIS NOTION THAT LIRIANO WAS JUST SOME TOOLS GUY THAT KEPT GETTING WORSE AS HE MOVED UP THE CHAIN IS A TOTAL DISTORTION OF WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.  WHILE AN 892 OPS IN A BALL IN 2011 IS TECHNICALLY HIGHER THAN 843 IN AAA IN 2015, 843 OPS IS STILL DAMN GOOD.  AND IF THAT MEANS A 790 OPS IN THE MAJORS, ADD LIRIANO'S SPEED AND DEFENSE AND YOU HAVE A QUALITY MAJOR LEAGUE.

    BUT ROGER NEVER SEES THAT BECAUSE HE IS TOO BUSY PLAYING WORD GAMES AND SHELL GAMES THAT HE LOSES SIGHT OF THE BIG PICTURE.
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:46 am

    Saying Guillen has a 15-20% chance of becoming a 2 WAR player is NOT a lie.  It is an OPINION.  But your character is such that a disagreement with you has always got to be answered with distorted and untruthful personal insults.  Calling someone else a "liar" when they haven't lied IS the real form of lying.  As is deliberately distorting or misrepresenting someone else's ACTUAL opinions. 


    ******************************************


    AND YOUR OPINION IS BASED A FRAUDULENT STUDY DUE TO ERRONOUS SAMPLING TECHNICS


    SO YES, IT IS A LIE.


    AND AGAIN, ITS AMAZING HOW YOU WILL DRILL DOWN TO THE MICRO LEVEL TO CRAP ALL OVER OTHER PEOPLES OPINION, BUT YOUR FLAWED MACRO LEVEL STUDIES SHOULD NEVER BE CHALLENGED.


    PLUS I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU BLANTANTLY MAKE UP NUMBERS WHEN YOU PLUCK ADAM EATONS FUTURE SALARIES OUT OF THIN AIR.  OOPS, I FORGOT, YOU FOUND SOMEONE SIMILIAR AND CONVENTIENTLY FORGOT THE SERVICE TIME WAS OFF BY A YEAR
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:58 am

    Liriano as a 21 year old in AA putting up a 712 OPS wasn't that impressive and after that 2012 season, he dropped out of BA's top 100 prospects where he had been after the 2011 season.


    ****************************************


    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/


    AGAIN YOU MISPRESENT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED


    DESPITE THE 712 OPS, HE WAS STILL #51 ACCORDING TO MLB.COM


    HE LOST ALL OF 2013 TO INJURY SO ITS ONLY COMMON SENSE HE WOULD NOT BE RANKED THE NEXT YEAR.


    AGAIN, YOUR NARRATIVE THAT LIRIANO WAS JUST SOME TOOLSY KID THAT COULDN'T CUT IT IS AT BEST, INCONCLUSIVE.  OR DO WE NEED TO LIST ALL THE 23 YEARS OLD IN BASEBALL HISTORY THAT HAD A 555OPS IN A 109AB CUP OF COFFEE IN ORDER TO SEE HOW MANY MADE IT AND HOW MANY JUST FADED AWAY
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:48 am

    <<SPARE ME.
    ONE SITES OPINION AND YOU ACT LIKE IT S THE BIBLE
    DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH EFFORT ROTOWORLD PUT INTO ITS ANALYSIS OR WAS IT JUST CRANKING OUT HUNDREDS OF OPINIONS THAT SOUNDED PLAUSIBLE IN ORDER TO MEET A DEADLINE.
    SO NO, ITS NOT FAIR TO SAY HE TAILED OFF.  HE HAD AN OFF YEAR, THEN LOST A SEASON, THEN REBOUNDED, THEN SUFERED A VERY SERIOUS, CAREER THREATENING INJURY.
    BUT YOUR TOO BUSY PLAYING YOUR LITTLE SEMANTIC WORD GAMES.....>>


    Doesn't matter how many sources anyone cites.  YOURS is the only opinion that matters, right ?
    Here's what I consider a guy TAILING OFF as he went up.

    - After 2011, (882 OPS/65 SB in low A) he's 49th in Baseball America's top 100 prospects and # 51 on MLB's list.  Rated # 2 Padres' prospect by BA, # 1 by MLB.   The guy he was vying with for # 1 Pad's prospect  ?  Anthony Rizzo.  
    - After 2012 when he puts up a 712 OPS in AA (no injuries involved), has a jump in K rate, declines in both speed and power,  he DISAPPEARS from all top 100 lists. Demoted to # 4 and # 5 Pads prospect by BA and MLB.  Now he's not the equals of the Jedd Gyorkos and Cory Spangenbergs.  
    - His alleged rebound in 2014 after missing 2013 earned him # 6 Pad prospect and Cory Spangenberg had now overtaken him.   After 2015 in AAA, Padres designated him for assignment, the Brewers picked him up and he ranked # 25 in their system.  Before he got hit a year ago, he was batting .143 in Spring Training with the Brew Crew.

    Of course the facial fracture a year ago is hard to overcome.  But Liriano's career had started on a downward spiral four years earlier when he stepped up to AA ball.  This is why I don't start paying much attention to guys until they get to AA.  Scouts get all excited about "tools" and how guys can excel in low A or even high A.  Then pitchers start finding holes in their swings and games in AA and AAA.    Rizzo's first taste of AA, he had an 815 OPS v. Liriano's 712 and Rizzo was a year younger when he first went up to AA.  IMO, that's where you really start seeing whether a guy has it or not.





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    rmapasad
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:01 pm

    ****************************************

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/

    AGAIN YOU MISPRESENT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED
    DESPITE THE 712 OPS, HE WAS STILL #51 ACCORDING TO MLB.COM >>


    I am surprised to see that MLB put him on that list AFTER the 2012 season as when I looked at it originally the 2012 list seemed based on the 2011 season. Which is the way Baseball America does it.
    http://thebaseballcube.com/prospects/byTeam.asp?T=24#2014
    BA had him # 2 Pads prospect in 2012 (after 2011 season) and # 49 overall
    then # 5 Pads prospect and not on the overall top 100 in 2013 (after the 2012 season).





    HE LOST ALL OF 2013 TO INJURY SO ITS ONLY COMMON SENSE HE WOULD NOT BE RANKED THE NEXT YEAR.


    AGAIN, YOUR NARRATIVE THAT LIRIANO WAS JUST SOME TOOLSY KID THAT COULDN'T CUT IT IS AT BEST, INCONCLUSIVE.  OR DO WE NEED TO LIST ALL THE 23 YEARS OLD IN BASEBALL HISTORY THAT HAD A 555OPS IN A 109AB CUP OF COFFEE IN ORDER TO SEE HOW MANY MADE IT AND HOW MANY JUST FADED AWAY
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:29 pm

    PLUS I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU BLANTANTLY MAKE UP NUMBERS WHEN YOU PLUCK ADAM EATONS FUTURE SALARIES OUT OF THIN AIR.  OOPS, I FORGOT, YOU FOUND SOMEONE SIMILIAR AND CONVENTIENTLY FORGOT THE SERVICE TIME WAS OFF BY A YEAR

    They were ESTIMATES and estimates by definition are "made-up numbers".  Actually Eaton had more  service time than the example I compared him to (Juan Lagares).  And guess what - I WAS PROVEN CORRECT, something that your enormous ego  can't stand.  You were thoroughly defeated on both the arguments that Eaton was "too short" to amount to much of a ballplayer and that the Sox were overspending prematurely on him.  
    Now two years later, Tim Anderson gets extended with LESS service time than Eaton had (Eaton had played 211 ML games when he signed his extension v. Anderson's 99 games), you are claiming Anderson will regret it despite his big challenges to get his plate discipline in order.
    I didn't make much of this blatant contradiction on your part, and really had no intention to bring Eaton up again, but now that you did, then what the hell
    :
    I WAS RIGHT AND YOU WERE WRONG
    I WAS RIGHT AND YOU WERE DEAD-ASS WRONG.
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    Re: Liriano sent down

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:48 pm

    <<2014, contrary to Roger's false narrative, Liriano and his 777OPS at AA impressed the Padres org enough to promote him to AAA where his 1.182 OPS earned him a promotion to the big leagues.  So while Roger is spewing his semantic BS and cherry picking one line opinions of blogs, Liriano was earning promotions.
     2015, 843 OPS.  However, he was now out of options, and the Padres needed to make room for Alexei Ramirez.  Since Liriano was not ready for prime time.  They traded him.  Maybe it was for a nobody, buts it was more than what the Twins got for David Ortiz >>


    OK, the Pads promoted him in 2014 to AAA even though he wasn't exactly tearing it up in AA. They also promoted two other AA OFers to AAA that year too since the big club's OF was a mess and they were trying to see who they had. Plus Liriano's past rep as one of their top prospects.
    Of course, after he went on a hot streak at AAA they moved him to majors. But his 555 OPS once in the bigs also got him derailed.
    Pads added Kemp, Upton and Myers to their OF in 2015 and that's why Liriano stayed in AAA all that year. I agree, an 843 OPS in AAA by a 24 year old shouldn't usually get a guy DFA'ed. But Pads did decide to keep Liriano's AAA OF teammate, Alex Dickerson, who was a year older.

    Yes, the Twins gave up on Ortiz too but that was real stupidity. He had put up 800 + OPS in the MAJORS from the time he was 22. Where Liriano's 555 OPS in his short stint in majors in 2014 clearly raised some doubts, and while he was decent in AAA in 2015, he didn't exactly tear it up either.
    El Paso is a hitter's park and PCL is more of a hitter's league.

    Last but not least, I think the Sox made a good scavange in picking up Liriano this winter. But his relatively high K rate in AAA and AA came back to haunt in Spring Training. I hope he can use AAA now to get some sort of career revival. We shall see







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