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    FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

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    rmapasad
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:40 pm

    Statements like this show how little you have actually thought about the situation.  Instead, it just proves to me that you look for ways to deliberately disagree with THE KARK  Gee, I would think a stat boy like you could rattle off a half dozen Quad A types that are available and have a better chance at succeeding that this clown.
    In fact, the Sox already have one in Rymer Liriano  >>


    Have already said Liriano should play RF and Garcia shouldn't.   Garcia DH'ed last year and that's what I expect he'll do in 2017 after Renteria sees him butcher RF.   What in the records of other DH candidates (Davidson, Asche, Engel, May, Willy Garcia) show they'd be any better ?  In fact some (Engel, May, Willy) have records showing they'd likely be worse..


    Can't believe I'm defending Garcia, but will say that he has shown some degree of hitting talent and power from time to time. Guys like this have turned into something worthwhile at age 26-27 before and Jose Guillen is one of them.  Granted, it may be only a 15-20% chance for Garcia...But it's not like the Sox have a boatload of surefire hitters that will be 70% or better shots to be on 2019 roster.  Moncada and Anderson are it right now.   The Sox are going to have to play the longshots for a while until trades/drafts bring in better guys.  To paraphrase Steven Stills if they can't have the ones they love quite yet, they're stuck loving the ones they're with.

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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by frank bonifacic on Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:41 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    frank bonifacic wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:Why should the Sox cut Garcia at this moment ? 


    ***************************************


    BECAUSE HE SUCKS!!!!!!


    HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN TENDERED!!!!!!!


    TRY WATCHING THE GAMES INSTEAD OF STAT HACK BLOGS!!!!!


    DEFENDING AVISAIL GARCIA, WHAT FURTHER PROOF IS NEEDED SOME PEOPLE HERE JUST WISH TO DELIBERATELY DISAGREE WITH THE KARK

    No one is "defending" Avisail Garcia. We are just saying that he is on the team at the moment. Releasing him gets the Sox nothing, and I believe we still have to pay him. He can be offered up as trade bait, but the fish likely won't be biting. 


    RELEASE HIM B4 3/15 AND YOU ONLY PAY HIM ABOUT A 1/6TH

    THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO VICIEDO

    BUT WHY LOOK IT UP WHEN ITS EASIER TO DELIBERATELY DISAGREE WITH THE KARK.

    GEE, I WOULD THINK A SEASON TICKET HOLDER WOULD HAVE SEEN ENOUGH OF GARCIA IN A WHITE SOX UNIFORM
    And a hell of a lot more fun!!!



    AT LEAST SOMEBODY HERE ADMITS IT
    Just wanted to see if you could handle an 80 mph fastball over the heart of the plate.
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:41 pm

    rmapasad wrote:Statements like this show how little you have actually thought about the situation.  Instead, it just proves to me that you look for ways to deliberately disagree with THE KARK  Gee, I would think a stat boy like you could rattle off a half dozen Quad A types that are available and have a better chance at succeeding that this clown.
    In fact, the Sox already have one in Rymer Liriano  >>


    Have already said Liriano should play RF and Garcia shouldn't.  

    GOOD!!!  THEN WE AGREE ON SOMETHING!!!

    Garcia DH'ed last year and that's what I expect he'll do in 2017 after Renteria sees him butcher RF.   What in the records of other DH candidates (Davidson, Asche, Engel, May, Willy Garcia) show they'd be any better ?  In fact some (Engel, May, Willy) have records showing they'd likely be worse.

    PLATOON ENGEL AND MAY IN LEFT AND DH CABRERA.


    Can't believe I'm defending Garcia, (BUT THEN LOOK WHO YOU ARE DISAGREEING WITH) but will say that he has shown some degree of hitting talent and power from time to time. Guys like this have turned into something worthwhile at age 26-27 before and Jose Guillen is one of them. 

    WEAK COMP.  CUT THE CLOWN AND LET SOMEBODY ELSE FIND OUT

    Granted, it may be only a 15-20% (MORE LIKE 1/10 of 1%) chance for Garcia...But it's not like the Sox have a boatload of surefire hitters that will be 70% or better shots to be on 2019 roster.  Moncada and Anderson are it right now.   The Sox are going to have to play the longshots for a while until trades/drafts bring in better guys.  To paraphrase Steven Stills if they can't have the ones they love quite yet, they're stuck loving the ones they're with.

    AND I BET I KNOW WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO DO WITH THE FISTED GLOVE.  AND IT AIN'T CARRYING NO ROSE
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:42 pm

    PLATOON ENGEL AND MAY IN LEFT AND DH CABRERA.>>
    OK, May is fast, but can't hit.  LFers need to hit. Engel's better but not much. They both fumbled around in AAA last year (660-670 OPS) at age 24.  
    Garcia has a 695 OPS in his major league career.  When Garcia's MAJOR LEAGUE numbers are better than Engel's and May's AAA ones, how do you justify dumping Garcia in favor of these two ?  These guys could clock in high 500's/low 600's in the bigs.  At least Garcia killed it in AAA (943) when he was only 22.
    Garcia has shown enough flashes in his career to warrant one more shot especially since the Sox aren't depending on him to win anything.  Let Engel and May show they can handle AAA pitching  and then bring one or both up when Cabrera gets dumped on some other team in July.  
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:32 pm

    Engel looked quite impressive in the AFL

    Besides, LF that can hit are an unnecessary luxury on a rebuilding team

    PS I look at Nick Delmonico b4 Garcia as well
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:23 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:Engel looked quite impressive in the AFL

    Besides, LF that can hit are an unnecessary luxury on a rebuilding team

    PS I look at Nick Delmonico b4 Garcia as well

    Did Engel play this fall in AFL ? Didn't see any record of that.

    Delmonico has come on a bit lately in AA and August 2016 in AAA. Still a career .251 Minor League batting average isn't real impressive.  But what the hell - let him join the party.

    All these guys (Garcia, Davidson, Asche, Delmonico, Engel, May) have "issues".   Garcia at least has  conquered AAA and been a barely passable survivor in the majors.  The other guys haven't shown they can master AAA yet.  But Garcia's clock is at 11;45 right now.  He's got to show something and quick. If he can't pull off an age 26 turnaround, then let some of these others have their shot at it.
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:55 am

    He's got to show something and quick.


    **********************************


    8 day to the first spring training game


    Meaning he has about 2 weeks after that to show he doesn't deserve being cut by 3/15 which means the White Sox only pay about 1/6 of his contract.


    BTW, if the Sox are suppose to suck and lose games for draft picks, then who cares if your DH has an OPS of 550 instead of 690


    Wasn't this your Wieters arguement?  BTW, some of these guys, like Mays and Engel vastly improve the defense.


    Finally, I'm sure if the Hahn regime looks hard enough, they could find an OF under 28 that could play almost average defense with an OPS of 710, and it would cost them more than a Jake Petricka
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:37 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:He's got to show something and quick.


    **********************************


    8 day to the first spring training game


    Meaning he has about 2 weeks after that to show he doesn't deserve being cut by 3/15 which means the White Sox only pay about 1/6 of his contract.


    BTW, if the Sox are suppose to suck and lose games for draft picks, then who cares if your DH has an OPS of 550 instead of 690


    Wasn't this your Wieters arguement?  BTW, some of these guys, like Mays and Engel vastly improve the defense.


    Finally, I'm sure if the Hahn regime looks hard enough, they could find an OF under 28 that could play almost average defense with an OPS of 710, and it would cost them more than a Jake Petricka

    Garcia gets 1/6 of salary if he's cut before the 16th day of ST - after that but before Opening Day he gets 1/4.  Doesn't happen that often though.

    Of course it doesn't matter what the Sox DH does this year.  Only issue is who should be get audition time. Weak as they are, Garcia "credentials" should give him first shot. He's 26, did well in AAA and has some power.  While he's been subpar in majors he's survived enough to avoid Schuck, Sands disasters. May and Engel seem more in the "disaster" camp. Davidson - hard to tell. Doesn't appear to be more than a bare survivor nor do Asche or Delmonico. 

    Sure,if Sox were a contender, they'd have signed Napoli and booted Garcia.  Contender can't risk him stinking it up again.  But the 2017 Sox can.  Give him those last few inches of rope. Handing his job to a new face doesn't make sense if that new face is unlikely to be any better or would be even worse.

    That said, Garcia's weak "credentials" make his rope pretty short.   He better have his ass on fire in Spring Training and be putting up some numbers in April/early May.

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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:00 pm

    THE TANK WAS CUT MID MARCH IN 2015

    25 DAYS AND COUNTING BEFORE WE ARE FREE OF THIS STIFF FOR GOOD

    THEN HE CAN ENTER THE ROGER HALL OF FAME WITH JOHN DANKS

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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:50 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:THE TANK WAS CUT MID MARCH IN 2015

    25 DAYS AND COUNTING BEFORE WE ARE FREE OF THIS STIFF FOR GOOD

    THEN HE CAN ENTER THE ROGER HALL OF FAME WITH JOHN DANKS

    tongue

    When I say a marginal guy should be hung onto a bit longer since nobody else better is in the wings,
    apparently that means I endorse him for the All Star team.
     
    Viciedo wasn't released in mid-March but it was February 4, 2015.  Sox only had to pay 1/6
    of his salary. Players Union could have filed a grievance against the Sox because it's not legal to void an arb
    contract for "economic purposes."  But the Sox had an ironclad defense because they could show they signed
    better players (Cabrera, LaRoche) which meant no room on the roster for Tank. So that took it out of the
    realm of an "economic" decision.

    Doubt they cut Garcia in mid-MArch, although they could before Opening Day and pay him only 1/4
    of his salary.   I still think Kenny Williams will lobby to keep him.

    While I have no attachment to Garcia and is the bust I expected him to be with the Sox's
    circumstances now see no harm whatsoever in giving him one last chance.  Frankly on a team
    that is trying to accumulate as many under 29 year olds as possible, I don't see why
    "finally being rid" of a 26 year old is a cause for celebration.   Unless the guy stepping into
    his shoes is clearly better.
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:42 pm

    WELL ISN'T WIETERS CLEARLY BETTER THAN SOTO?!?!?!?


    PLUS YOUNGER?!?!?!?!?!?!


    I'D SAY THE CHANCE OF A VETERAN REDISCOVERING HIMSELF IS BETTER THAN A LIFELONG STIFF FINALLY GETTING IT


    AND JUST WHAT IS YOUR BASIS FOR GARCIA HAVING A 15% CHANCE OF BEING JOSE GUILLEN?!?!?!?!?


    IF I THOUGHT THIS WAS REMOTELY REAL, I'D AGREE.  


    INSTEAD, I'D SAY HE HAS TWO WEEKS TO PROVE HE'S NOT A BASEBALL DUMB ASS ANYMORE.


    AND TRUST ME, THE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF WHITE SOX FANS ALL OVER THE GLOBE WILL BE CELEBRATING THEY DAY THIS STIFF IS CUT.
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:28 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:WELL ISN'T WIETERS CLEARLY BETTER THAN SOTO?!?!?!?
    PLUS YOUNGER?!?!?!?!?!?!
    I'D SAY THE CHANCE OF A VETERAN REDISCOVERING HIMSELF IS BETTER THAN A LIFELONG STIFF FINALLY GETTING IT
    AND JUST WHAT IS YOUR BASIS FOR GARCIA HAVING A 15% CHANCE OF BEING JOSE GUILLEN?!?!?!?!?
    IF I THOUGHT THIS WAS REMOTELY REAL, I'D AGREE.  
    INSTEAD, I'D SAY HE HAS TWO WEEKS TO PROVE HE'S NOT A BASEBALL DUMB ASS ANYMORE.
    AND TRUST ME, THE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF WHITE SOX FANS ALL OVER THE GLOBE WILL BE CELEBRATING THEY DAY THIS STIFF IS CUT.

    Can we finally shitcan Wieters ?  As I had suspected, he is likely to sign at $8- 10 mil and that money to a 31 yr old for one year would be absurd for a non-contender. Hell, even contenders were balking at him for good reason.   31 year olds are twice as likely (26%) to decline than to improve ( 12%) by 1.5 WAR or more.   Where 18 % of guys 26 or more improve by 1.5 WAR +  and only 12% fall back by that+. 

    Admittedly, in Garcia's case a 1.5 WAR improvement just takes him out of the shitter.  The kind of dramatic improvement like Jose Guillen had (3 WAR +) happens for only 6% of all 26 year olds. But that applies to Garcia's competitors some of whose chances are more remote given how they've struggled to hit AAA and AA pitching these last couple years.

    When you don't have quality at a spot. then it's about cycling through a quantity of younger until someone steps up. But for that to work best, you don't needlessly deplete your quantity of younger guys until you have to.  There are plenty of AB's to go around this year, particularly after Frazier and Cabrera leave.   
    If Sox try to cut Garcia to save money they risk a Players Union grievance. They actually have to prove through ST stats that the reason he's cut is that others have been better.  If Davidson or someone else comes on strong in the Spring then the Sox have a case. 

    One last time - I am not a Garcia fan.  He is probably a lost cause.  But there will be a bunch of those this year. Like any other under 27 year old, he should be given enough rope to either climb up or hang himself.   There is no value in psychic satisfaction of cutting Garcia as a punishment for his sucking the past couple years when the Sox were trying to contend.
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:57 pm

    One last time - I am not a Garcia fan.  He is probably a lost cause.  But there will be a bunch of those this year. Like any other under 27 year old, he should be given enough rope to either climb up or hang himself.


    ******************

    TRY WATCHING THE GAMES!!!!!!!


    Garcia has been dangling from the end of the rope for quite a while now.


    How many times do you want to open this refridgerator door b4 you realize the food elves aren't going to fill it up for you?!?!?!?!
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:01 pm

    HEY

    CODY ASCHE APPEARS TO HAVE MASTERED THAT LOFTY LEVEL OF A 690OPS, JUST LIKE ROGERS HERO AVISAIL!!!!!!!!

    PLUS ASCHE IS LEFTHANDED AND MORE VERSITILE

    SEEMS TO ME THAT ASCHE IS A BETTER FIT THAN GARCIA
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:06 pm

    HEY

    NICK DELMONICO HAD A 837 OPS IN THE MINORS LAST YEAR AND IS A YEAR YOUNGER THAN GARCIA!!!

    NOT TO MENTION A LEFTHANDED.  HOWEVER HE IS MORE OF A CORNER IF THAN A OF.  BUT AT DH, HE'D HAV MORE GOING FOR HIM THAN GARCIA
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:08 pm

    HEY

    MATT DAVIDSON HAS A CAREER MLB OPS OF 773!!!!!

    GRANTED IT WAS ONLY 78AB.

    BUT GEO SOTO ONLY HAD 78AB LAST YEAR AND ROGER WAS TOUTING HIM AS THE PERFECT CATCHER FOR THE SOX
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:11 pm

    HEY

    ADAM ENGEL CAREER OPS IN THE MINORS IS 738!!!!!

    SO THAT MIGHTY 690 IN THE BIGS IS CERTAINLY REASONABLE

    PLUS YOU GET GRADE 80 SPEED WITH IT.

    THAT ALONE SHOULD MAKE HIM A BETTER FIT THAN GARCIA
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:15 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    TRY WATCHING THE GAMES!!!!!!!


    Garcia has been dangling from the end of the rope for quite a while now.


    How many times do you want to open this refridgerator door b4 you realize the food elves aren't going to fill it up for you?!?!?!?!

    I've watched Garcia play and know his weaknesses..   Point is simply that the Sox have had him struggling in the majors these last 2 years and all these guys you're touting have been struggling in the minors.   The only thing to recommend them is they are new faces.  When some start resembling Jordan Danks in the majors, then the new face gets old fast. 
    Engel, May and Delmonico can use some more AAA time.  Davidson, Asche and Garcia are the ones who should get the shot at majors AB's.  The clock starts running in Spring Training and we'll see who survives.  Unlike you, I have no need to predict who the survivors will be.
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:21 am

    Unlike you, I have no need to predict who the survivors will be.


    *************************************************




    No, you just feel the need to correct everybody else's predictions.


    And just what else is there to talk about in the middle of Feb concerning the White Sox?!?!?!?


    Whether or not Yoan Moncada's toddler can replace Drake LaRouche as the teams inspiration?!?!?!?
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:33 pm

    No, you just feel the need to correct everybody else's predictions.>>



    Here are some interesting findings I just stumbled into:

    Average haircut 1st yr majors v. last year AAA is 110 OPS pts.

    By second year in majors the haircut is down to 90 pts. v. last yr AAA

    By third year in majors , the haircut is down to 50 pts v. last yr AAA

     

    Here are the White Sox players' last year in minors v. first year majors results

    Yoan Moncada 910 (AA)  - 513 majors (only 20 PA's majors)

    Jason Coats 913  v majors 638       

    Rymer Liriano 845 (2015 AAA) v. majors 564 (in 2014)


    Danny Hayes 842

    Matt Davidson 795

    Charlie Tilson 756

    Tim Anderson 734 - majors 738         

    C. Sanchez 732    - majors 594         

    Nick Delmonico 712

    Jerry Sands -  712   majors 567    

    Adam Engel -  667

    Jacob May - 661

    Omar Narvaez - 623   majors 693     (only 110 AB's in majors)

    Anderson and Narvaez dodged the traditional haircuts in going to the majors.  Whether they will be able to keep that up this year is hard to say, but most guys have had significant slippages going from minors to majors.

      

     Liriano, Davidson and Tilson have best hopes of landing jobs but who knows how much of a haircut they'll take this year.  But shave off the traditional 50 pts for 3rd yr majors and you might get some idea where they'd be in 2019.



    May, Engel, Delmonico would have to better their AAA numbers to be worthwhile, which isn't an easy thing to pull off.  If they follow the more traditional path of a 80 -120 pt haircut their first year in majors they end up in Yolmer Sanchez land.  Hayes only had 250 PA's last year , but was at 746 the year before in AA.  Plus he's 26.  Not a great deal to get excited about despite the AAA numbers last year.


    In most win-now orgs all but Moncada, Anderson, and Tilson would be considered failures or busts.  But with the Sox they all have chances.  Will be interesting to see what happens.
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:32 am

    WHY DO I SUSPECT YOUR SAMPLED POPULATION IS A SICK ELEPHANT IN THIS SITUATION?!?!?!?
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:09 pm

    WHY DO I SUSPECT YOUR SAMPLED POPULATION IS A SICK ELEPHANT IN THIS SITUATION?!?!?!?>>


    If you're referring to the Sox players, this wasn't a "sample".  It was a complete list of guys who played in AAA last year and competing for roster spots this spring.


    The results are what they are.   Moncada appears to be the only genuine stud on that list.  Rest of these guys are going to be average players at best, IMO, and many will be fringe major leaguers or worse.

    But as Bill James said, average players have value.   So if several of them turn out to be just that, 2017 will help Sox figure out part of their 2019-2020 roster. 
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:50 pm

    So if my head is in the freezer and my feet are in the oven, my body, on average is at a comfortable temperature.

    Hey the results are what they are

    No matter how unbelievable they may be.

    Or should I say the erroneous exstrapulagion of random results based upon a poorly designed study.  

    Tell me again why we should waste another year on Avisail?!?!???

    Because he might have a 700OPS in a year that winning doesn't matter?!??!?!!

    Hillarious how you fail to see how this contradicts everything you said about wieters
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:20 pm


    >
    -Not sure what you have such trouble believing.  That most guys don't do as well in majors as AAA ?  I would think that's common fucking sense.  
    Of course, the "average" haircut guys take from AAA is just an average.  Some guys take severe hits - lose 200-300 pts of OPS.  Some like Anderson and Narvaez actually improve in majors.  But they are exceptions. 

    Tell me again why we should waste another year on Avisail?!?!???
    Because he might have a 700OPS in a year that winning doesn't matter?!??!?!!
    Hillarious how you fail to see how this contradicts everything you said about wieters
      >>>

    For the 50th time now, of course Wieters would be better than any Catcher the Sox have. But so what ?  Why spend bigger $ on a 31 year old Catcher with no future with the club past 2017 ?

    For the 40th time now, the reason the Sox give 26 year old Garcia another year is that he might have a future with the Sox in 2019-2020.   Sure, he has to get his ass in gear and improve. But the same could be said of every guy he's competing with - Davidson, Asche, or Liriano have had their own failures. Plus guys like Engel, May and Delmonico are even bigger question marks since they were no better or worse in AAA than Garcia was in majors.  
    At this point, I see no reason that Garcia should be scuttled to make room for guys whose careers are as or even more checkered than his own and are basically around the same age.  There are enough AB's for these guys in Chicago and Charlotte (where the last 3 probably belong this year) to see who can turn his career fortunes around.   Let's just see what happens. 





    What is also common sense is that odds of guys like Engel, May, Delmonico being better than Garcia this year are not very high. Since their numbers
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    Re: FULL OF BEANS or just DELUSIONAL

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:00 am

    For the 41st time, this Garcia instead Jose Guillen is nothing but a warped fantasy of yours.

    Still waiting on the 15% justification.

    BTW, you also said the minor league catchers that were much smarter choices than Wieters had a 25% chance.

    So why doesn't that 25% apply to kids like Engel?!?!?!?!?

    Again you cherry pick you data.  Minor league catchers with crappy OPS, to hell with getting an All-Star Catcher, these kids have a 1 in 4 chance.  But OF's with the same OPS, well we can't take a chance on that since there OPS will drop over 100 points and we lose the great Avisail Garcia.

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