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    Bring back Gordon!

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    rmapasad
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:45 pm

    Never said it made them untradeable.  Try comprehending what I am telling you instead of looking for ways to deliberately disagree with me.
    plus nobody here is hoping Q and R are on the Opening Day roster.  Try following the topic in its entirety>>


    I never "deliberately" disagree with you.  I disagree when your arguments don't make sense and you have no proof to support them.  

    [size=13]Nor did I say that you claimed losses make guys "untradable".  You clearly claimed that losses would affect their trade value though  "the White Sox will need the extra wins to maintain the trade value of Quintana and Robertson and Frazier and Cabrera" to which I showed that Samardzija's 2-7 record did not seem to affect [/size]his trade value as the Cubs got the # 7 ranked prospect in all of baseball (Addison Russell) for him at midseason. 




    Cubs so much, just look at how long it Ron Santo to make the Hall.  Bill James laid out the Santo case in the mid 80's.  25 years later he is finally in.  Everybody knows that playing for those loser Cubs hurt his cause
    Here I agree with you.   HOF voting sportswriters have tended to be a very old school anti-Bill James lot for the longest time.   And they have used a team's wins as some criteria no matter how good the individual players were.  But today's young GM's are mostly raised on Bill James and Billy Beane so their perspective is different. 





     
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    Nomads44
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Nomads44 on Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:05 pm

    Who is Tony Clifton???  That is one I have never heard of, especially someone you think was good enough to be considered for the HOF.

    frank bonifacic
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by frank bonifacic on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:11 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:Plus the White Sox will need the extra wins to maintain the trade value of Quintana and Robertson and Frazier and Cabrera  >>


    Where is the proof that wins affect trade value of pitchers or hitters ?   There is none, but it doesn't even make logical sense.

    It makes all the sense in the world.  More prove you just love to disagree with everything I say


    Contenders know these vets play on losing teams, that's why they're being made available for trades. 

    Cubs traded Samardzija who had a 2-7 record in midseason 2014 and got top prospect Addison Russell in return.  The A's were focused on his 2.83 ERA not his W-L record.   As to Closers, losing teams still create Save opportunities.  It's how well Robertson or Jones cashes in on those chances that will count. 

    Never said it made them untradeable.  Try comprehending what I am telling you instead of looking for ways to deliberately disagree with me.

    plus nobody here is hoping Q and R are on the Opening Day roster.  Try following the topic in its entirety


    Here's the proof.

    Take two pitchers both with an ERA of 3.00 and identical whatever other sabr mumbo jumbo you claim is important,

    One has a 8-2 record, the other is 3-7.  Everybody and their brother will claim 8-2 is better.  no one will claim worse


    Here's more proof.

    Since you love the Cubs so much, just look at how long it Ron Santo to make the Hall.  Bill James laid out the Santo case in the mid 80's.  25 years later he is finally in.  Everybody knows that playing for those loser Cubs hurt his cause.  Put Santo in Yankee Stadium or Fenway and he's in while alive via the regular voting process

    Want one more, try Tony Clifton, the old 3B from the Browns.

    Bottom line, associate with losers, you'll be considered a loser
     Ernie Banks twice won MVP on a last place team and had no problem getting into HOF
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:16 pm

    frank bonifacic wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote: Ernie Banks twice won MVP on a last place team and had no problem getting into HOF

    What got Banks in was he hit the magic 500+ HR's.   That (along with the MVP's) enabled him to get in with no problem despite his team never making a World Series.  On the flip side, Banks didn't really generate as much career value with defense considered as Alan Trammel, who hasn't gotten in.

    Do agree with Kark that Santo who also had more career value than Banks had trouble getting in (took the Vets Committee to finally admit him) in part because he never played in World Series.
    Whereas a guy like Duke Snider who wasn't as valuable as Santo (considering his poor defense later in his career) got into the Hall with no problem due to the publicity he had in playing in 6 World Series.

    frank bonifacic
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by frank bonifacic on Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:31 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    frank bonifacic wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote: Ernie Banks twice won MVP on a last place team and had no problem getting into HOF

    What got Banks in was he hit the magic 500+ HR's.   That (along with the MVP's) enabled him to get in with no problem despite his team never making a World Series.  On the flip side, Banks didn't really generate as much career value with defense considered as Alan Trammel, who hasn't gotten in.

    Do agree with Kark that Santo who also had more career value than Banks had trouble getting in (took the Vets Committee to finally admit him) in part because he never played in World Series.
    Whereas a guy like Duke Snider who wasn't as valuable as Santo (considering his poor defense later in his career) got into the Hall with no problem due to the publicity he had in playing in 6 World Series.
    Snider was one of my favorite players growing ip
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:42 pm

    Snider was one of my favorite players growing ip>>


    Mine too.. Good guy, good ballplayer.  But he benefited greatly from playing in a bandbox like Ebbets Field both offensively and defensively.  When Dodgers moved to LA his game dropped off sharply.
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    sox55
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by sox55 on Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:39 pm

    rmapasad wrote:Snider was one of my favorite players growing ip>>


    Mine too.. Good guy, good ballplayer.  But he benefited greatly from playing in a bandbox like Ebbets Field both offensively and defensively.  When Dodgers moved to LA his game dropped off sharply.

    Wasn't the Duke about done anyway when they moved west?
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:22 am

    sox55 wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:Snider was one of my favorite players growing ip>>


    Mine too.. Good guy, good ballplayer.  But he benefited greatly from playing in a bandbox like Ebbets Field both offensively and defensively.  When Dodgers moved to LA his game dropped off sharply.

    Wasn't the Duke about done anyway when they moved west?

    At age 31, he wasn't done when they moved west but a knee operation that first year in LA really slowed him down.  As did the 440 right centerfield power alley at the LA Coliseum. He went from 40 HR's his last year in Brooklyn to 14 in his first year in the Coliseum.
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:23 am

    Nomads44 wrote:Who is Tony Clifton???  That is one I have never heard of, especially someone you think was good enough to be considered for the HOF.


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