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    Bring back Gordon!

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    sox55
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    Bring back Gordon!

    Post by sox55 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:38 am

    Hey, I have a FULL slate of Spring Training games this year.
    As long as the Sox aren't trading Quintana, Robertson, Frazer,and Cabrerra before the season begins, they might as well invite Gordon Beckham back so" WIN NOW on the CHEAP 2017" goes into full force.


    I'm SURE Unkie Jer would welcome back another one of his "Kids" and that would be an olive leaf in gesture to yours truly for the 1997 season ticket holders post season invitation incident.
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by sox55 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:43 am

    sox55 wrote:Hey, I have a FULL slate of Spring Training games this year.
    As long as the Sox aren't trading Quintana, Robertson, Frazer,and Cabrerra before the season begins, they might as well invite Gordon Beckham back so" WIN NOW on the CHEAP 2017" goes into full force.


    I'm SURE Unkie Jer would welcome back another one of his "Kids" and that would be an olive leaf in gesture to yours truly for the 1997 season ticket holders post season invitation incident.

    BUT, all bets are OFF if THIS happens:


    http://dawindycity.com/2017/02/07/chicago-white-sox-news-possible-deal-hand-david-robertson/
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:10 pm

    BECKHAM WOULD BE A GREAT MOVE

    ACCORDING TO ROGER, THE WHITE SOX NEED TO DELIBERATELY LOSE EVERY GAME IN 2017

    SIGN GORDON, PLAY HIM AT SHORT

    FARM OUT ANDERSON AND DELAY HIS FREE AGENCY CLOCK BY ANOTHER YEAR.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by alohafri on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:15 pm

    sox55 wrote:Hey, I have a FULL slate of Spring Training games this year.
    As long as the Sox aren't trading Quintana, Robertson, Frazer,and Cabrerra before the season begins, they might as well invite Gordon Beckham back so" WIN NOW on the CHEAP 2017" goes into full force.


    I'm SURE Unkie Jer would welcome back another one of his "Kids" and that would be an olive leaf in gesture to yours truly for the 1997 season ticket holders post season invitation incident.

    Fuck Gordon Beckham! What's past is past. 
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    Deplorable Mark
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:36 pm

    I'd rather F his wife.

    I'll let the MF'er in Elkhart have Sully
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    Nomads44
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Nomads44 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:32 pm

    How about Robertson and half his salary to the Nationals for C Pedro Severino and OF Michael Taylor?
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:59 pm

    MICHAEL TAYLOR?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    ISN'T THAT THE STIFF MART WAS IN LOVE WITH 3 YEARS AGO?!?!?!?
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:05 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:How about Robertson and half his salary to the Nationals for C Pedro Severino and OF Michael Taylor?


    HOW ABOUT THE KIEBOOM BROTHERS INSTEAD
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by alohafri on Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:55 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:MICHAEL TAYLOR?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    ISN'T THAT THE STIFF MART WAS IN LOVE WITH 3 YEARS AGO?!?!?!?

    I think there were two of them. I think this is the other one.
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:27 am

    alohafri wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:MICHAEL TAYLOR?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    ISN'T THAT THE STIFF MART WAS IN LOVE WITH 3 YEARS AGO?!?!?!?

    I think there were two of them. I think this is the other one.




    SO KINDA LIKE THE BELLA TWINS


    OR IN THIS CASE, THE BELCUBSFAN TWINS
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:41 am

    Nomads44 wrote:How about Robertson and half his salary to the Nationals for C Pedro Severino and OF Michael Taylor?

    Don't think Nats GM would do both of them.  Not even sure he'd do one of them unless the Sox would eat a whole bunch of Robertson's salary.  Taylor's star has fallen, but he'd be a good get for the Sox.
    Maybe the Sox asked for him as the second guy in the Eaton deal and were rejected.
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:15 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:How about Robertson and half his salary to the Nationals for C Pedro Severino and OF Michael Taylor?

    Don't think Nats GM would do both of them.  Not even sure he'd do one of them unless the Sox would eat a whole bunch of Robertson's salary.  Taylor's star has fallen, but he'd be a good get for the Sox.
    Maybe the Sox asked for him as the second guy in the Eaton deal and were rejected.



    ARE YOU PEOPLE EVEN LOOKING AT MINOR LEAGUE STATS?  BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME YOU ARE LETTING YOURSELVES GET WOWED BY HOT CUPS OF COFFEE


    SEVERINO HAS A CAREER OPS OF 632 IN THE MINORS.  653 OVER 291 AT BATS IN AAA


    JUST WHAT IS IT YOU PEOPLE FIND SO PROMISING WITH YOUNG CATCHERS WITH PISS POOR MINOR LEAGUE OPS


    THE KARK WOULDN'T EVEN GIVE ZACH PUTNAM FOR THIS STIFF
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by sox55 on Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:35 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:How about Robertson and half his salary to the Nationals for C Pedro Severino and OF Michael Taylor?

    Don't think Nats GM would do both of them.  Not even sure he'd do one of them unless the Sox would eat a whole bunch of Robertson's salary.  Taylor's star has fallen, but he'd be a good get for the Sox.
    Maybe the Sox asked for him as the second guy in the Eaton deal and were rejected.



    ARE YOU PEOPLE EVEN LOOKING AT MINOR LEAGUE STATS?  BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME YOU ARE LETTING YOURSELVES GET WOWED BY HOT CUPS OF COFFEE


    SEVERINO HAS A CAREER OPS OF 632 IN THE MINORS.  653 OVER 291 AT BATS IN AAA


    JUST WHAT IS IT YOU PEOPLE FIND SO PROMISING WITH YOUNG CATCHERS WITH PISS POOR MINOR LEAGUE OPS


    THE KARK WOULDN'T EVEN GIVE ZACH PUTNAM FOR THIS STIFF


    HEY..............THIS thread is about GORDON!
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:34 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    ARE YOU PEOPLE EVEN LOOKING AT MINOR LEAGUE STATS?  BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME YOU ARE LETTING YOURSELVES GET WOWED BY HOT CUPS OF COFFEE
    SEVERINO HAS A CAREER OPS OF 632 IN THE MINORS.  653 OVER 291 AT BATS IN AAA
    JUST WHAT IS IT YOU PEOPLE FIND SO PROMISING WITH YOUNG CATCHERS WITH PISS POOR MINOR LEAGUE OPS
    HE KARK WOULDN'T EVEN GIVE ZACH PUTNAM FOR THIS STIFF

    Severino is one of Nationals' top 10 prospects.   He's young for the levels he's played at which is one reason for the lower OPS, another being his lack of power.  But he is considered one of the best defensive Catchers in the minors.. Doubtful he'll develop a great deal of power, but if he can hit enough line drives to have a respectable BA (he did hit .271 in AAA) this might be enough to make him major league material considering his strong defense.
    This is all relevant for the Sox.  While Collins has tremendous power and batting eye, there are questions whether his defense is good enough to stay behind the plate or whether he'll eventually move to 1st base.  Apparently he is lumbering and doesn't move to block balls well nor is his arm that strong. So Sox may need a Plan B at Catcher if Collins doesn't work out all that well.  That's why guys like Narvaez and Severino, who are only 24 and have defensive skills are worth being in the conversation. 
    A guy like that may be obtainable for Robertson if Sox swallow some decent portion of Robertson's
     $ 25 mil salary.  Although Michael Taylor would probably be a better get due to Sox's lack of any good OF prospects.   Washington may not be willing to give up on him quite yet since he's the heir apparent to LF when Werth leaves.
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:37 am


    HEY..............THIS thread is about GORDON!

    He just signed with the Giants.  You can catch him in some ST games in Phoenix though, John.


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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:18 am

    Michael Taylor is 3 months older than Avisail Garcia, with an OPS about 30 points less


    No Thank You


    PS, if a White Sox prospect had Taylor's K/BB you'd already be calling him a stiff


    PSS, younger doesn't necessarily mean better.


    PSSS, to answer Kevin's snide remark in another post, yes the KARK would love 25 players that were born After the White Sox beat the Expos in the imaginary 1994 World Series.  But to quote Mick Jagger


    YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT.


    So now is the time to focus on what you need for the up coming season.


    which means I'd rather have Matt Wieters than waste a valuable closer on the Italian Ron Karkovice wanna be in the National's farm
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:04 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:Michael Taylor is 3 months older than Avisail Garcia, with an OPS about 30 points less
    No Thank You  PS, if a White Sox prospect had Taylor's K/BB you'd already be calling him a stiff
    PSS, younger doesn't necessarily mean better.
    PSSS, to answer Kevin's snide remark in another post, yes the KARK would love 25 players that were born After the White Sox beat the Expos in the imaginary 1994 World Series.  But to quote Mick Jagger
    YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT.
    So now is the time to focus on what you need for the up coming season.
    which means I'd rather have Matt Wieters than waste a valuable closer on the Italian Ron Karkovice wanna be in the National's farm

    Robertson is an overpriced mediocre closer.  All he could pull right now are prospects with some pluses but distinct minuses like Severino or Taylor.  Only reason any team has mild interest in Robertson is that he's held the magic title of "Closer" for 3-4 years now.
    Taylor hasn't solved his whiff problems after his big 939 OPS season in AA. But he walks more than Garcia, has shown more power, more speed, and most importantly is a good defensive OFer.  So no, he's not the  kind of stiff Garcia has been. 
    "Focus on the needs for the upcoming season" ?  Who cares about the optics of 2017 ? That's pretend-to-contend talk.  BTW, one reason your boy hasn't been getting offers left and right is that he fumbled a big water jug he was carrying and inflicted a deep cut on his arm a couple months ago. Good hands for a Catcher, eh ?

    Right now, and I'm sure you can agree, there are only two ways for the Sox to get more Grade A hitters: 1- Trade Quintana   and  2- The draft.  Those should be top priorities.  The more the Sox pretend to contend in 2017 the more they sabotage both # 1 and  2.

    But Sox are also going to have to see which of the B, C, and even D+ younger players they can use for the future.  That includes the Lirianos, Tilsons, Narvaezes, and even Avi Garcias.  And yes, there also has to be a reality that the Robertsons, Fraziers, and Cabreras are only going to pull B, C prospects in trade. But the more of those the Sox have, law of averages is that a few of them will be useful members of the 201-2020 squad.
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:47 pm

    Taylor might out rank Avisail Garcia, (hardly an accomplishment)


    But he is behind Tilson, Liriano, Engel and May in the KARK's not so humble opinion


    And since I listed 4, the Sox should have one bona fide future OF according to your study.


    Quintana should bring in a second.


    Jameson Fisher is the KARK's bet for the 3rd.


    Basabe is the insurance policy.


    Mindlessly throwing out young athletic types into the lineup and claiming its rebuilding doesn't change that guys like Taylor can't hit and trading a closer for his kind is a bigger waste than throwing a couple extra million at Matt Wieter just to spare Sox fans the embarrassment of Narvaez and Soto in yet another wasted year
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by alohafri on Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:53 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    Mindlessly throwing out young athletic types into the lineup and claiming its rebuilding doesn't change that guys like Taylor can't hit and trading a closer for his kind is a bigger waste than throwing a couple extra million at Matt Wieter just to spare Sox fans the embarrassment of Narvaez and Soto in yet another wasted year

    I have news for you, even with Matt Wieters, this is another wasted year. I would say even moreso with him than without.
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:05 pm

    I FAIL TO SEE HOW ITS MORESO
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by alohafri on Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:34 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:I FAIL TO SEE HOW ITS MORESO

    It's not a commitment to going young, to going "The Kids Can Play". Bring in someone young, even if he sucks, shows that you are committed to this rebuilding thing. Signing someone over 30 who no one else seems to want, and you are not rebuilding. If Wieters was already on the team, I'd say keep him unless you can trade him. They aren't going to trade guys like Shields without eating too much of his salary. I don't know the interest in Melky. There doesn't seem to be any. There does seem to be interest in Robertson (who should go because he isn't that good, and if you are going to suck, why do you need a closer anyway?) and in Quintana (who should be traded for the same reason Sale and Eaton were traded...high returns).


    This team has been treading water for a few years now. Bringing in Wieters sends the message that it will continue to tread water. Yes, I don't care how the Sox do in 2017 just as long as they are going in the right direction, building from the bottom up, not taking flyers on aging veterans. 
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:26 pm

    Players like Michael Taylor show no direction

    And your idea to sabotage the season under the guise of a youth movements sends and even worse message

    The real world does not conform to your abstract little theories on how things should be.  Sometimes you have to respond in a practical manner to the reality the situation.  Wieters sends the perfect message that the White Sox are paying attention and always looking for ways to improve

    What you are suggesting is putting the cart b4 the horse because you refuse to accept other possibilities exist beyond your myopic assumptions
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:28 pm

    And again, Wieters is better than Soto and it's a 34 year catcher that is losing a job.  Not Jonny Bench Jr
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:38 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    But he is behind Tilson, Liriano, Engel and May in the KARK's not so humble opinion...  And since I listed 4, the Sox should have one bona fide future OF according to your study.
    Mindlessly throwing out young athletic types into the lineup and claiming its rebuilding doesn't change that guys like Taylor can't hit and trading a closer for his kind is a bigger waste than throwing a couple extra million at Matt Wieter just to spare Sox fans the embarrassment of Narvaez and Soto in yet another wasted year



    Don't know whether Engel or May have done enough in minors to warrant a callup yet, but guys like Avi Garcia, Liriano, Tilson, and Michael Taylor have.  Taylor may never get over his K problem enough to hit beyond .230-.240 so at best he may be a 4th OFer.  Then again, guys like him have been known to flip the switch and amount to something.

    I've been the biggest critic of Garcia since the day the Sox traded for him, and felt he hurt the Sox's ability to contend by playing. But since Sox aren't contending this year, what the hell - might as well give Garcia another shot.  Liriano is getting a shot even though he's been a walking MASH these last several years and his minor league #'s at ages 21-22 were worse than Garcia's at same ages.  This is the year to let these guys show whether they can improve enough to stick.  No loss if they don't, big gain if they do.  No need for you or I or anyone to predict their exact future.  Play them and let's see.

    There is no value holding onto a useless, overpriced Closer because all he can realistically pull is a C+ prospect. Nor in getting  31 year old has-been Catcher who has no future value.  This is basically preserving "win-now" but re-casting it under the banner of "avoiding embarrassment".  My guess is that Sox fans are prepared to see younger guys getting their asses handed to them. But it beats seeing a bunch of declining 30+ year olds who have no future here getting their asses handed to them only slightly less because of the ridiculous premise that they will cause the Sox a little less embarrassment.
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    Re: Bring back Gordon!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:58 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:Players like Michael Taylor show no direction

    And your idea to sabotage the season under the guise of a youth movements sends and even worse message

    The real world does not conform to your abstract little theories on how things should be.  Sometimes you have to respond in a practical manner to the reality the situation.  Wieters sends the perfect message that the White Sox are paying attention and always looking for ways to improve

    What you are suggesting is putting the cart b4 the horse because you refuse to accept other possibilities exist beyond your myopic assumptions

    "Sabotage the season under the guise of the youth movement" ?  The "sabotage the season" ship was launched and now fully sailing with the Sale and Eaton trades.  Why confuse the message with win-now nonsense ?   Sox management needs to send the message to younger players:  "this is your chance. We are giving you the opportunity you wouldn't get on other clubs.  That should excite the Lirianos, Tilsons, etc.  That's who the Sox have some chance of claiming a future with.  Not with 31 year old has-beens.

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