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    rmapasad
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    Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:10 pm

    White Sox signed LHP Derek Holland to a one-year, $6 million contract.
    Scott Merkin of MLB.com reported that the two sides were close while Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News passed along the contract details. Holland hasn't made 30 starts in a season since 2013, but the suddenly-rebuilding White Sox could flip him at the trade deadline if he has a resurgence. He probably would have better odds at that in the National League.
    Injuries limited Holland to just 37 innings in 2014, effectively preventing him from building on his good 2013 season. The following two campaigns did not go so well, either. He recorded 4.91 and 4.95 ERAs in 2015 and 2016, respectively, as health woes continued to plague him. A career 4.35 pitcher, Holland’s best days might officially be behind him.
    Holland should still be a valuable veteran piece on a suddenly very young White Sox team. He can help bring along the bevy of young pitchers Chicago now has. He’s also known as one of the best clubhouse guys around. Given the issues the White Sox clubhouse experienced presence.


    Well OK, this is strange.   Yeah, the Sox need bodies to pitch in 2017 but WTF are they doing signing a 30 year old whose "best days may be behind him" ?  For "mentoring" younger pitchers ? Isn't that the pitching coach's job ?  
    IF, which is a big if, this guy revives he MIGHT, and that is also speculation, be flipped for something midseason. But it won't
    be for much of a prospect if any. That's kinda  a piss poor reason to spend $ 6 million on a guy who's resembled James Shields as of late.   As noted before, I am still skeptical of the decision-making of this front office in any rebuild and signings like these
    do not remove that skepticism.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:51 pm

    The missing piece!!!!!!!! Don't stop now boys!!!!  cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:08 am

    The answer is obvious Roger

    Somebody has to eat innings while guys like Fulmer and Kopech....

    Stay in the minors to stop the service time clock

    6mil is nothing in baseball Monopoly money.  Plus your history of trade value has always been grossly pessimistic.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by alohafri on Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:23 am

    It's a relatively cheap move. If he is able to regain something, he would be a decent trading chip at the deadline. 
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:52 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:The answer is obvious Roger

    Somebody has to eat innings while guys like Fulmer and Kopech....

    Stay in the minors to stop the service time clock

    6mil is nothing in baseball Monopoly money.  Plus your history of trade value has always been grossly pessimistic.

    Sox have some options to eat innings like Turner and Renaudo. They got knocked around too last year but they're younger and might have some future.  Maybe 25 year old David Holmberg does too. What about younger free agents like Eovoldi or DeLa Rosa who throw a lot harder and might develop if they get better command ? Holland has similarities to  Danks, since he's dealing with less velocity due to his arm injuries and hasn't been very successful at it.
    Granted, 6 mil isn't that big a deal, if he revives and Sox can flip him at the deadline.  A's signed Rich Hill for $ 6 mil and turned him into 3 prospect pitchers in a midyear trade with Dodgers last year.  But Hill had shown evidence in 2015 of a new way to get movement on his fastball and had some results to prove it.  Don't see real evidence from 2016 that Holland is doing anything but going down the Danks path.  So the idea that Holland might rebound could be based on the all too typical WISHFUL THINKING that has plagued Sox decision-making for last 10 years.  Sure, the front office strategy has changed but maybe its mentality and player judgment skills haven't.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:44 am

    Sox have some options to eat innings like Turner and Renaudo


    Maybe 25 year old David Holmberg does too.



    What about younger free agents like Eovoldi or DeLa Rosa



    **************************************************


    WHAT ABOUT ANY OF THESE STIFFS?!?!?!?


    Turner and his 6.57 ERA and Ranaudo and his 8.48 are some options


    LMAO!!!!!!


    And Holmberg?!?!?!?!  Cut by the Braves last spring and was AA filler this summer.  Not even listed in the top 30 prospects.  WTF are you smoking


    Maybe the reason Eovoldi or De La Rosa were overlooked is that they are righthanded.


    Holland is a lefty!!!!!!


    You do realize that when all else is equal, lefty is better than righty in the world of baseball.  Dontcha


    And spare me you Danks analogy.  Your the guy that said he made more sense than Buehrle 5 years ago.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:00 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:WHAT ABOUT ANY OF THESE STIFFS?!?!?!?
    Turner and his 6.57 ERA and Ranaudo and his 8.48 are some options
    LMAO!!!!!!
    And Holmberg?!?!?!?!  Cut by the Braves last spring and was AA filler this summer.  Not even listed in the top 30 prospects.  WTF are you smoking
    Maybe the reason Eovoldi or De La Rosa were overlooked is that they are righthanded.
    Holland is a lefty!!!!!!
    You do realize that when all else is equal, lefty is better than righty in the world of baseball.  Dontcha
    And spare me you Danks analogy.  Your the guy that said he made more sense than Buehrle 5 years ago.
    Taking fliers on guys is what rebuilding teams do. Just a question of what kind of guys to take fliers on.  27 year old Nate Eovoldi who throws high 90's with trouble throwing strikes or a 30 year old who hasn't been good for last 3 years and now barely can crack 90 ?  I'd bet on the hard thrower finding the strike zone and turning into semi-stud if he can.  Rather than hoping the sore-armed guy will find a new pitch to revive his career when there's NO EVIDENCE he's close to finding one.  Ditto on 25 year old Jacob Turner who throws 95 and who the Sox let walk away to sign a minor league deal with the Nats. 

    As to Holland being a lefty, so what ?   Sox had 3-4 LHers in their rotation last year. How'd that work out ? Meanwhile the Cubs had 4 RHers in theirs.  Sox still have Rodon, and Quintana.  That's enough. Hell, even 1 LHer is enough.
    .
    As to Danks/Buehrle, when Danks' arm wasn't shredded, it made some sense to keep him around. But I always said the Sox didn't need to do that in 2011. They could/should have waited to see how his FA walk year in 2012 turned out.  Instead Kenny gave him the $ 65 million extension a year too soon. 
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:09 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:WHAT ABOUT ANY OF THESE STIFFS?!?!?!?
    Turner and his 6.57 ERA and Ranaudo and his 8.48 are some options
    LMAO!!!!!!
    And Holmberg?!?!?!?!  Cut by the Braves last spring and was AA filler this summer.  Not even listed in the top 30 prospects.  WTF are you smoking
    Maybe the reason Eovoldi or De La Rosa were overlooked is that they are righthanded.
    Holland is a lefty!!!!!!
    You do realize that when all else is equal, lefty is better than righty in the world of baseball.  Dontcha
    And spare me you Danks analogy.  Your the guy that said he made more sense than Buehrle 5 years ago.
    Taking fliers on guys is what rebuilding teams do.

    AND THEY ARE TAKING ONE ON HOLLAND

     Just a question of what kind of guys to take fliers on.  27 year old Nate Eovoldi who throws high 90's with trouble throwing strikes or a 30 year old who hasn't been good for last 3 years and now barely can crack 90 ?

    WHAT A LOADED STATEMENT!!!!!  AND WHEN THE HELL AS EOVOLDI EVER BEEN GOOD?!?!?!?!  38-46 4.21 CAREER ERA.  NEVER THREW 200 IP.  TAKE OUT HIS FLUKE 2015 AND YOU'LL SEE CLEARLY WHY

      I'd bet on the hard thrower finding the strike zone and turning into semi-stud if he can.  Rather than hoping the sore-armed guy will find a new pitch to revive his career when there's NO EVIDENCE he's close to finding one.

    WHERE THE EVIDENCE THAT EOVOLDI WILL FIGURE IT OUT?!?!?  I'M SURE IF THERE WERE ANY, THEN THE YANKEES WOULDN'T HAVE RELEASED HIM 3 WEEKS AGO

      Ditto on 25 year old Jacob Turner who throws 95 and who the Sox let walk away to sign a minor league deal with the Nats.
     

    LMAO!!!! TRY WATCH THE GAMES INSTEAD OF THE CALCULATOR.  THE SOX LET WALK AWAY...  WHAT AN ABSOLUTELY STUPID STATEMENT

    As to Holland being a lefty, so what ?   Sox had 3-4 LHers in their rotation last year. How'd that work out ? Meanwhile the Cubs had 4 RHers in theirs.  Sox still have Rodon, and Quintana.  That's enough. Hell, even 1 LHer is enough.

    WHAT AN ABSOLUTELY STUPID STATEMENT.  ANYBODY WHO UNDERSTANDS BASEBALL UNDERSTANDS THE VALUE OF A LEFTY.  IF YOU ACTUALLY TRIED ANALYZING INSTEAD OF OF JUST PISSING ON PARADES WITH PESSIMISTIC POPPYCOCK IT WOULD BE CLEAR THAT THE WHITE SOX ARE HOPING TO FLIP HIM IN JULY WHERE HIS LEFTHANDEDNESS WILL ADD TO HIS TRADE VALUE
    .
    As to Danks/Buehrle, when Danks' arm wasn't shredded, it made some sense to keep him around. But I always said the Sox didn't need to do that in 2011. They could/should have waited to see how his FA walk year in 2012 turned out.  Instead Kenny gave him the $ 65 million extension a year too soon. 

    WHO WAS BETTER THE LAST 5 YEARS?!?!?!?!


    THE ONLY ONE SURPRISED THAT IT WAS BUEHRLE WAS YOU.


    THE REST OF US WATCH THE WHITE SOX.  THE WHOLE BOARD KNOW YOUR 60 SECOND COOKIE CUTTER ANALYSIS WAS FLAT OUT WRONG.  AS WELL AS UNNECESSARILY LONG.


    PS, WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE ON HOLMBERG?!?!?!?!?  6.24 CAREER ERA AND MORE WALKS THAN STRIKE OUTS.  OR ARE YOU PULLING A KENNY JR AND DAYDREAMING ABOUT HIS TOOLS
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:03 pm

    WHAT A LOADED STATEMENT!!!!!  AND WHEN THE HELL AS EOVOLDI EVER BEEN GOOD?!?!?!?!  38-46 4.21 CAREER ERA.  NEVER THREW 200 IP.  TAKE OUT HIS FLUKE 2015 AND YOU'LL SEE C
    WHERE THE EVIDENCE THAT EOVOLDI WILL FIGURE IT OUT?!?!?  I'M SURE IF THERE WERE ANY, THEN THE YANKEES WOULDN'T HAVE RELEASED HIM 3 WEEKS AGO >>


    Same thing could have been said about Jake Arrieta when he was 26 yrs old - 6.20 ERA, no season of more than 120 IP in majors.   Threw mid 90's but couldn't find the strike zone. 
    Not saying Eovoldi will turn into Arrieta, but he is the KIND of guy who has the gun to turn things around and become good. Where Holland is just a mid-high 4.00's junk throwing nibbler unless he gets a new pitch (like Rich Hill did).  Hoping Holland will get back to his 2012-2013 self is pretty much like hoping Danks, after his 2012 arm troubles, might return to his 2008-2010 form.

    WHO WAS BETTER THE LAST 5 YEARS?!?!?!?!   THE ONLY ONE SURPRISED THAT IT WAS BUEHRLE WAS YOU.   THE REST OF US WATCH THE WHITE SOX.  THE WHOLE BOARD KNOW YOUR 60 SECOND COOKIE CUTTER ANALYSIS WAS FLAT OUT WRONG.
    Danks was worse these last 5 years because he hurt his arm in 2012 and never was the same.
    But in the four years prior to 2012, he had a 3.77 ERA and Buehrle had a 3.88 and Danks was six years younger.  Danks looked like a better investment PROVIDED he stayed healthy.  If you're going to tell me that watching Danks from 2008-2011 meant fans could predict he'd go down with a career-killing injury, then I'd say that's a complete and utter load of shit.   Sox had Cooper watching him all those years, and I'm sure he'd have warned the Sox had he seen that on the horizon.   But "watching fans" knew the true score...  ROTFLMAO...That's fucking nonsense.

    Besides
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:11 am

    ANYBODY ELSE FIND IT HYSTERICAL THAT ROGER WANTS TO LECTURE ME ABOUT NONSENSE THEN CLAIMS EOVOLDI JUST MIGHT BE THE NEXT JAKE ARRIETA?!?!?!?!?
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:18 am

    JUST READ THAT NATHAN EOVOLDI HAD TOMMY JOHN SURGERY FOR THE 2ND TIME THIS PAST AUGUST!!!!!


    MAYBE THAT IS WHY THE YANKEES RELEASED HIM THREE WEEKS AGO


    NEXT JAKE ARRIETA MY BLACK ASS
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:40 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:JUST READ THAT NATHAN EOVOLDI HAD TOMMY JOHN SURGERY FOR THE 2ND TIME THIS PAST AUGUST!!!!!
    MAYBE THAT IS WHY THE YANKEES RELEASED HIM THREE WEEKS AGO
    NEXT JAKE ARRIETA MY BLACK ASS
    He had been designated for assignment in order to free up a 40-man roster spot. Eovaldi wasn't going to be tendered a contract this winter, anyway, since it's his final year of arbitration eligibility and he'll miss 2017 following Tommy John and flexor tendon surgeries. Eovaldi will turn just 27 in February and should draw plenty of interest in teams that are willing to wait out his rehab. >

    Didn't realize he was going under the knife, but IMO that still makes him a logical target since 2017 is a lost year for Sox too and he could be had very cheaply now. Guys can regain their full velocity after TJ surgery but if he doesn't the Sox won't be out much.  (maybe 1-2 mil). 

    As to Eovoldi being the "next Arrieta", nice twisting of my words.  Was using Arrieta as an example of someone who looked lousy earlier, but turned out good. Here is exactly what I said "Not saying Eovoldi will turn into Arrieta, but he is the KIND of guy who has the gun to turn things around and become good."   He doesn't have to be Arrieta-good to be worth taking a flyer on, just someone who could be a good starter in 2018-2019.

    Last but not least, it's Reinsdorf's $ 6 mil so he can let them blow it on a mediocrity like Holland, whose purpose seems to be 3 month rotation filler so Gioloto, Fullmer, Kopech, etc. can remain in the minors.  Plus some slim hopes that he might pull a prospect in midseason trades.  But if Holland puts up same 4.90 ERA of his last two years, he won't command anyone better than an Eovoldi type anyway.  So why not use the $ 6 mil on 2-3 flyers on younger guys instead ?  Especially if the budget doesn't allow for as many flyer types because the $ 6 mil spent on Holland precludes them.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by alohafri on Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:44 pm

    rmapasad wrote:

    Last but not least, it's Reinsdorf's $ 6 mil so he can let them blow it on a mediocrity like Holland, whose purpose seems to be 3 month rotation filler so Gioloto, Fullmer, Kopech, etc. can remain in the minors.  

    If that was the purpose of the Holland signing, I have no problem with it. This organization brings up pitchers way too soon. My fear is that the Sox will win 6 of the first 10 games of the season, will be proclaimed "miraculously in the hunt" and every prospect pitcher will be brought up.  albino
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:31 pm

    alohafri wrote:

    If that was the purpose of the Holland signing, I have no problem with it. This organization brings up pitchers way too soon. My fear is that the Sox will win 6 of the first 10 games of the season, will be proclaimed "miraculously in the hunt" and every prospect pitcher will be brought up.  albino

    Basically agree. This is probably to take Quintana's spot as the Sox seem to fielding offers for him.  To the extent that Holland saves a Gioloto from a premature call-up, fine.. Was looking at what starting pitchers are getting and geez, it's pretty ridiculous.   A couple of other rotation fillers like Milone or Locke could have been had cheaper, but hell it's Reinsdorf's money.  My only real objection is if somehow Reinsdorf feels like Holland's $ 6 mil crowds out other investments on flyer-type guys.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:37 am

    Lose 100 games. Rebuild from the bottom up.  This Win Now was just so fucking stupid.  If WIN NOW is the battle cry of a dlldo like Murph, you just know it is IDIOTIC.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by alohafri on Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:43 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    alohafri wrote:

    If that was the purpose of the Holland signing, I have no problem with it. This organization brings up pitchers way too soon. My fear is that the Sox will win 6 of the first 10 games of the season, will be proclaimed "miraculously in the hunt" and every prospect pitcher will be brought up.  albino

    Basically agree. This is probably to take Quintana's spot as the Sox seem to fielding offers for him.  To the extent that Holland saves a Gioloto from a premature call-up, fine.. Was looking at what starting pitchers are getting and geez, it's pretty ridiculous.   A couple of other rotation fillers like Milone or Locke could have been had cheaper, but hell it's Reinsdorf's money.  My only real objection is if somehow Reinsdorf feels like Holland's $ 6 mil crowds out other investments on flyer-type guys.

    Hasn't this been the White Sox history? Taking a broken down or coming of of surgery pitcher, giving him over to the "great" Don Cooper and turning his career around (or not)? I really wasn't that surprised by the signing.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:55 pm

    Shooters Buffet wrote:Lose 100 games. Rebuild from the bottom up.  This Win Now was just so fucking stupid.  If WIN NOW is the battle cry of a dlldo like Murph, you just know it is IDIOTIC.
    Exactly... Take flyers...Load up on guys under 27 yrs old. That's what rebuilds are all about.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:37 am

    alohafri wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    alohafri wrote:

    If that was the purpose of the Holland signing, I have no problem with it. This organization brings up pitchers way too soon. My fear is that the Sox will win 6 of the first 10 games of the season, will be proclaimed "miraculously in the hunt" and every prospect pitcher will be brought up.  albino

    Basically agree. This is probably to take Quintana's spot as the Sox seem to fielding offers for him.  To the extent that Holland saves a Gioloto from a premature call-up, fine.. Was looking at what starting pitchers are getting and geez, it's pretty ridiculous.   A couple of other rotation fillers like Milone or Locke could have been had cheaper, but hell it's Reinsdorf's money.  My only real objection is if somehow Reinsdorf feels like Holland's $ 6 mil crowds out other investments on flyer-type guys.

    Hasn't this been the White Sox history? Taking a broken down or coming of of surgery pitcher, giving him over to the "great" Don Cooper and turning his career around (or not)? I really wasn't that surprised by the signing.



    WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THE GREAT DON COOPER ACTUALLY DID THAT?!?!?!?


    SEEMS TO ME LIKE ITS BEEN A WHILE
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by alohafri on Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:38 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    alohafri wrote:

    If that was the purpose of the Holland signing, I have no problem with it. This organization brings up pitchers way too soon. My fear is that the Sox will win 6 of the first 10 games of the season, will be proclaimed "miraculously in the hunt" and every prospect pitcher will be brought up.  albino

    Basically agree. This is probably to take Quintana's spot as the Sox seem to fielding offers for him.  To the extent that Holland saves a Gioloto from a premature call-up, fine.. Was looking at what starting pitchers are getting and geez, it's pretty ridiculous.   A couple of other rotation fillers like Milone or Locke could have been had cheaper, but hell it's Reinsdorf's money.  My only real objection is if somehow Reinsdorf feels like Holland's $ 6 mil crowds out other investments on flyer-type guys.

    Hasn't this been the White Sox history? Taking a broken down or coming of of surgery pitcher, giving him over to the "great" Don Cooper and turning his career around (or not)? I really wasn't that surprised by the signing.



    WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THE GREAT DON COOPER ACTUALLY DID THAT?!?!?!?


    SEEMS TO ME LIKE ITS BEEN A WHILE

    I think the next time will be the first time.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:58 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:Lose 100 games. Rebuild from the bottom up.  This Win Now was just so fucking stupid.  If WIN NOW is the battle cry of a dlldo like Murph, you just know it is IDIOTIC.
    Exactly... Take flyers...Load up on guys under 27 yrs old. That's what rebuilds are all about.



    AVI GARCIA IS UNDER 27.
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:46 am

    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:Lose 100 games. Rebuild from the bottom up.  This Win Now was just so fucking stupid.  If WIN NOW is the battle cry of a dlldo like Murph, you just know it is IDIOTIC.
    Exactly... Take flyers...Load up on guys under 27 yrs old. That's what rebuilds are all about.

    AVI GARCIA IS UNDER 27.

    Now that the Sox have decided to rebuild, they might as well use him as long as he doesn't block the playing time of someone with better potential.  
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:49 am

    alohafri wrote:
    Deplorable Mark wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    alohafri wrote:

    If that was the purpose of the Holland signing, I have no problem with it. This organization brings up pitchers way too soon. My fear is that the Sox will win 6 of the first 10 games of the season, will be proclaimed "miraculously in the hunt" and every prospect pitcher will be brought up.  albino

    Basically agree. This is probably to take Quintana's spot as the Sox seem to fielding offers for him.  To the extent that Holland saves a Gioloto from a premature call-up, fine.. Was looking at what starting pitchers are getting and geez, it's pretty ridiculous.   A couple of other rotation fillers like Milone or Locke could have been had cheaper, but hell it's Reinsdorf's money.  My only real objection is if somehow Reinsdorf feels like Holland's $ 6 mil crowds out other investments on flyer-type guys.

    Hasn't this been the White Sox history? Taking a broken down or coming of of surgery pitcher, giving him over to the "great" Don Cooper and turning his career around (or not)? I really wasn't that surprised by the signing.



    WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THE GREAT DON COOPER ACTUALLY DID THAT?!?!?!?


    SEEMS TO ME LIKE ITS BEEN A WHILE

    I think the next time will be the first time.


    How can you forget the great Estaban Loiaza?!?!?!?
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by Cream1953 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:58 am

    as long as he doesn't block the playing time of someone with better potential.  

    ********************************************************************************
    Hell that could be anybody on this board if they suited up. That's how bad this guy SUCKS!
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    Re: Derek Holland

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:21 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:as long as he doesn't block the playing time of someone with better potential.  

    ********************************************************************************
    Hell that could be anybody on this board if they suited up. That's how bad this guy SUCKS!

    He'll need a miraculous turnaround to be worth a shit.  But same could be said for other members of the Sox including the recently acquired Mr. Holland.

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