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    Eaton Gone

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    Nomads44
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    Eaton Gone

    Post by Nomads44 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:37 pm

    WOW, Even a better trade than the Sale deal. I thought the Sox took a bit too little for Sale, but this makes up for it. I read earlier that the Nats offer for Sale was each of these to two pitchers plus Robles. I wonder if Hahn turned it down after sniffing out their interest in Eaton, Q and Abreu and saw this as a strong possibility.


    Sox reportedly get Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez, two nearly ready MLB pitchers and another in the Nats Top Ten in Dane Dunning.  And as I read, for Eaton only.


    Looks like Kenny has finally been told to stand back and let Hahn see what he can do without interference.  Yesterday, I was okay with the deal, but not really excited thinking he should have gotten a little bit more.  But today, these two trades together give the Sox a super start on their rebuild.


    Now Abreu and Frazier and Quintana could be moved for even more, but Sox system has already been escalated a bunch.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:46 pm

    Keep blowing it up!!!!!!


    WIN NOW-RELOAD IS OVER!!!

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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by frank bonifacic on Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:05 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:WOW, Even a better trade than the Sale deal. I thought the Sox took a bit too little for Sale, but this makes up for it. I read earlier that the Nats offer for Sale was each of these to two pitchers plus Robles. I wonder if Hahn turned it down after sniffing out their interest in Eaton, Q and Abreu and saw this as a strong possibility.


    Sox reportedly get Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez, two nearly ready MLB pitchers and another in the Nats Top Ten in Dane Dunning.  And as I read, for Eaton only.


    Looks like Kenny has finally been told to stand back and let Hahn see what he can do without interference.  Yesterday, I was okay with the deal, but not really excited thinking he should have gotten a little bit more.  But today, these two trades together give the Sox a super start on their rebuild.


    Now Abreu and Frazier and Quintana could be moved for even more, but Sox system has already been escalated a bunch.
    My son said that the Nats forum
    Is blowing up wondering if their GM is on crack!!  LMAO
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Nomads44 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:12 pm

    Any chance Jose Abreu could bring INF Brendan Rodgers and 3B Ryan McMahon? 

    If necessary, substitute OF David Dahl or P Kyle Freeland for one of the above?
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by alohafri on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:31 pm

    frank bonifacic wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:WOW, Even a better trade than the Sale deal. I thought the Sox took a bit too little for Sale, but this makes up for it. I read earlier that the Nats offer for Sale was each of these to two pitchers plus Robles. I wonder if Hahn turned it down after sniffing out their interest in Eaton, Q and Abreu and saw this as a strong possibility.


    Sox reportedly get Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez, two nearly ready MLB pitchers and another in the Nats Top Ten in Dane Dunning.  And as I read, for Eaton only.


    Looks like Kenny has finally been told to stand back and let Hahn see what he can do without interference.  Yesterday, I was okay with the deal, but not really excited thinking he should have gotten a little bit more.  But today, these two trades together give the Sox a super start on their rebuild.


    Now Abreu and Frazier and Quintana could be moved for even more, but Sox system has already been escalated a bunch.
    My son said that the Nats forum
    Is blowing up wondering if their GM is on crack!!  LMAO

    I saw the same kind of comments from Red Sox fans yesterday.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by alohafri on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:32 pm

    Rumor has it that the Astros are now considering their phenom Bregman as no longer off limits when it comes to Quintana. We shall see.

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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by frank bonifacic on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:49 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    frank bonifacic wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:WOW, Even a better trade than the Sale deal. I thought the Sox took a bit too little for Sale, but this makes up for it. I read earlier that the Nats offer for Sale was each of these to two pitchers plus Robles. I wonder if Hahn turned it down after sniffing out their interest in Eaton, Q and Abreu and saw this as a strong possibility.


    Sox reportedly get Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez, two nearly ready MLB pitchers and another in the Nats Top Ten in Dane Dunning.  And as I read, for Eaton only.


    Looks like Kenny has finally been told to stand back and let Hahn see what he can do without interference.  Yesterday, I was okay with the deal, but not really excited thinking he should have gotten a little bit more.  But today, these two trades together give the Sox a super start on their rebuild.


    Now Abreu and Frazier and Quintana could be moved for even more, but Sox system has already been escalated a bunch.
    My son said that the Nats forum
    Is blowing up wondering if their GM is on crack!!  LMAO

    I saw the same kind of comments from Red Sox fans yesterday.
    Listened to Score on way home from train. Played interview with Hahn at meetings. As he walked in, Joe Cowley asked Hahn if he dropped off his ski mask and pistol at door?
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:35 am

    frank bonifacic wrote:
    Listened to Score on way home from train. Played interview with Hahn at meetings. As he walked in, Joe Cowley asked Hahn if he dropped off his ski mask and pistol at door?


    This is a good haul for the Sox in maximizing both Sale and Eaton's value.  The only downside is that of the 7 prospects obtained in the these deals 5 are pitchers and the Sox are in desperate need of building offensive strength in their system. Which is why I like the Sale trade better at least as things stand now.
    Will say though that Eaton had his career year in 2016 so dealing him now before his inevitable falloff made sense. 


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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:04 pm

    I doubt Eaton would have gotten Robles out of the Nats

    So the KARK will forgive the pitchers only for Eaton.  Especially since it appears the Nate grossly overpaid

    That said, if Quintana goes. he better bring in a blue chip hitter.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Cream1953 on Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:47 pm

    Sox are in desperate need of building offensive strength in their system

    *******************************************************************************************************************************

    Says who??? After all, didn't they just resign the great Available Garcia??!! cheers
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:03 pm

    Do not rush anybody to the Majors.


    Finally.  Have a clue.


    Lose 100 games.  Who cares?  Dopey Fanboys?  Idiots who act like a Sox World Series is somehow IMPORTANT in their lives?


    WIN NOW was just so damned stupid.  It lucked out once.


    Tank the next season.  Get a high draft pick.


    Emulate the CUBS!!


    Build a team that wins CONSISTENTLY, not once every 10 years.


    The Cubs plan is not rocket science.


    Looks like the Cubs winning woke somebody up on 35th Street.


    Running a Win Now scam on a few dopes and dildos was decreasing the value of the Sox Franchise!!!


    No new fans....nobody watching on TV locally.....YOU DO NOT MARKET TO SENIOR CITIZENS STUCK IN 1962.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:01 am

    < Tank the next season.  Get a high draft pick.
    Emulate the CUBS!!  The Cubs plan is not rocket science. >>


    Actually the Cubs' plan was rocket science and isn't easily emulated.  It's not just  dumping your tradeable veterans for highly rated prospects.  It's picking the pockets of other teams who prematurely give up on guys like Rizzo, Arrieta, and Hendricks and are willing to trade them for peanuts.  It's taking Chris Bryant and passing on eventual bust Mark Appel with your first round draft pick in 2013.  Or taking Kyle Schwarber instead of the other 3 busts ahead of him in the 2014 draft.  It's snagging Ben Zobrist, Jon Lester, and Dexter Fowler.  And then getting a real Manager when you want to contend.


    Other teams have tried rebuilds with only limited success - the Marlins have been doing it for the last 10 years, as have the Pirates,  Padres, Rockies, Rays, Twins, etc... "Going with youth" is no solution if that youth never amounts to anything.


    So yes, the Sox did the right thing by trading Sale and Eaton and getting good prospects in the bargain.  The Sox weren't going anywhere and Sale/Eaton/Quitana will never have higher trade value than now. But despite all the accolades for what Hahn got in those recent deals, it was absolutely what any GM with 1/2 a brain should have gotten for gems like Sale and Eaton.  Now that they are gone the cupboard is bare, and the Sox still have a long way to go into building a contender.
    The real rocket science will come in what he can get for overpriced veterans like Robertson and Cabrera. Or what he can fetch for Abreu or Frazier, whose stars have fallen recently.   If he can get future Rizzos or Ariettas for those guys then he deserves  the real accolades.

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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by TeleFrank on Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:52 am

    Chicago's National League team didn't invent the rebuild, but it happening in the same town is certainly a MAJOR factor in this tear down.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:02 am

    rmapasad wrote:< Tank the next season.  Get a high draft pick.
    Emulate the CUBS!!  The Cubs plan is not rocket science. >>


    Actually the Cubs' plan was rocket science and isn't easily emulated.  It's not just  dumping your tradeable veterans for highly rated prospects.  It's picking the pockets of other teams who prematurely give up on guys like Rizzo, Arrieta, and Hendricks and are willing to trade them for peanuts.  It's taking Chris Bryant and passing on eventual bust Mark Appel with your first round draft pick in 2013.  Or taking Kyle Schwarber instead of the other 3 busts ahead of him in the 2014 draft.  It's snagging Ben Zobrist, Jon Lester, and Dexter Fowler.  And then getting a real Manager when you want to contend.


    Other teams have tried rebuilds with only limited success - the Marlins have been doing it for the last 10 years, as have the Pirates,  Padres, Rockies, Rays, Twins, etc... "Going with youth" is no solution if that youth never amounts to anything.


    So yes, the Sox did the right thing by trading Sale and Eaton and getting good prospects in the bargain.  The Sox weren't going anywhere and Sale/Eaton/Quitana will never have higher trade value than now. But despite all the accolades for what Hahn got in those recent deals, it was absolutely what any GM with 1/2 a brain should have gotten for gems like Sale and Eaton.  Now that they are gone the cupboard is bare, and the Sox still have a long way to go into building a contender.
    The real rocket science will come in what he can get for overpriced veterans like Robertson and Cabrera. Or what he can fetch for Abreu or Frazier, whose stars have fallen recently.   If he can get future Rizzos or Ariettas for those guys then he deserves  the real accolades.


    Nothing is guaranteed.  Anything is better and brings more interest than WIN NOW-RELOAD with clowns like DeAza, Youkilis, LaRoche...................WIN NOW-RELOAD appealed to absolute morons.  PERIOD.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:28 am

    Shooters Buffet wrote:Nothing is guaranteed.  Anything is better and brings more interest than WIN NOW-RELOAD with clowns like DeAza, Youkilis, LaRoche...................WIN NOW-RELOAD appealed to absolute morons.  PERIOD.

    Bobby, last two years of failed win-now left only one sane option as it was clear the clock was ticking on Sale, Eaton and Quintana's trade value.  Maybe Cubs' rebuild provided a role model -who knows.

    What I do know is that abandoning win-now
    does not make this front office any better at evaluating talent or negotiating deals.   Sox tried a rebuild from mid 2013 - early 2014 and Eaton for Santiago was the only good deal made.  They got zilch for Reed, Peavy, Thornton, and Rios. Truly top-notch front offices would have extracted at least a useful player or two for them.  This is also the same crew that got hosed on the Samardijza and Shields deals.
    While their returns on Sale/Eaton are a big step in the right direction, I still see a glimmer of the same biases for undisciplined athletic specimens and
    hard throwers prone to wildness in these recent deals. Failure to change strategy about the TYPE OF PLAYERS to get will make rebuild as much a failure as win-now. They need to get a few more sabermetric minds in the evaluation process (as the Cubs did) as well as improving their overall scouting processes
    The beauty of this for Hahn and Williams is that the pressure is off them for at least the next two-three years.  Everyone expects the Sox to suck for that long, and fanboys' focus will now be on the "potential" of all the new players.  Sox still have a long way to go in building a contender, and I still see the need for the front office to really up their game.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by alohafri on Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:47 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:Nothing is guaranteed.  Anything is better and brings more interest than WIN NOW-RELOAD with clowns like DeAza, Youkilis, LaRoche...................WIN NOW-RELOAD appealed to absolute morons.  PERIOD.

    Bobby, last two years of failed win-now left only one sane option as it was clear the clock was ticking on Sale, Eaton and Quintana's trade value.  Maybe Cubs' rebuild provided a role model -who knows.

    What I do know is that abandoning win-now
    does not make this front office any better at evaluating talent or negotiating deals.   Sox tried a rebuild from mid 2013 - early 2014 and Eaton for Santiago was the only good deal made.  They got zilch for Reed, Peavy, Thornton, and Rios. Truly top-notch front offices would have extracted at least a useful player or two for them.  This is also the same crew that got hosed on the Samardijza and Shields deals.
    While their returns on Sale/Eaton are a big step in the right direction, I still see a glimmer of the same biases for undisciplined athletic specimens and
    hard throwers prone to wildness in these recent deals. Failure to change strategy about the TYPE OF PLAYERS to get will make rebuild as much a failure as win-now. They need to get a few more sabermetric minds in the evaluation process (as the Cubs did) as well as improving their overall scouting processes
    The beauty of this for Hahn and Williams is that the pressure is off them for at least the next two-three years.  Everyone expects the Sox to suck for that long, and fanboys' focus will now be on the "potential" of all the new players.  Sox still have a long way to go in building a contender, and I still see the need for the front office to really up their game.

    No one wanted Reed, Peavy, Thornton, or Rios. Except for Reed, they were all a bit long in the tooth. For guys like that, you just get players to fill in your minor leagues. You aren't going to get players who will be anything close to impact major league talent.


    That being said, I agree that the White Sox have been shitty at evaluating talent. But it really looks like Hahn is now in charge.


    And just as long as those "sabermetric minds" are coupled with "baseball minds". I doubt if a bean counter is going to be able to look at statistics and see what a butcher Tank was.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:05 pm

    And just as long as those "sabermetric minds" are coupled with "baseball minds". 


    ****************************************


    PRAISE BUDDHAH THE SABERMETRIC MINDS FOR THE NATIONALS COMPLETELY OVERRATED ADAM EATON


    LET'S ALL JERK OFF OVER A B+ PLAYER AND HIS 6 POINT WAR


    *****************************


    AND LETS NEVER EVER FORGET IT WAS THE KARK THAT SAID THE DAMN THING SHOULD HAVE BEEN TORN DOWN 6 YEARS AGO WHEN THE FREE AGENCY DEPARTURES OF KONERKO, PIERZYNSKI, AND PUTZ WOULD HAVE NETTED THEM 5 SANDWICH PICKS GIVING THEM AT LEAST 7 OF THE FIRST 90 PICKS IN 2011.


    INSTEAD , NOT ONLY TO THEY BRING BACK KONERKO AND AJ, THEY PISSED AWAY THE REST OF THEIR DRAFT PICKS ON ADAM "FREAKIN" DUNN!!!!!!!


    SO NO, ITS FAR FROM ROCKER SCIENCE WHEN SOME NOBODY SCHMUCK FAN HAD IT FIGURED OUT 6 YEARS AGO


    PS, THE BIGGEST SABR GUY ON THIS BOARD WAS THE ONLY ONE DUMB ENOUGH TO DEFEND THE JOHN DANKS SIGNING!!!!
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:27 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:Sox are in desperate need of building offensive strength in their system

    *******************************************************************************************************************************

    Says who??? After all, didn't they just resign the great Available Garcia??!! cheers


    THE ONE TALENT KENNY WILLIAMS SEEMS TO HAVE IS GETTING A USEFUL YEAR OR SO OUT OF SOME QUAD A TYPE PLAYER

    AKA DE AZA

    BUT THEN HE GOT OBSSESSED TRYING TO SUCK OUT ONE MORE GOOD YEAR OUT OF STARS OBVIOUSLY PAST THEIR PRIME.

    I SUPPOSE GARCIA PREVENTS THE SOX FROM PISSING AWAY TONS OF CASH ON THE NEXT ADAM LADOUCHE

    HOPEFULLY HE WON'T TAKE TIME AWAY FROM TILLSON OR ENGEL OR MAY, 3 PLAYERS THAT NEED TO START THEIR MLB CAREER'S NOW
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:04 pm

    alohafri wrote:No one wanted Reed, Peavy, Thornton, or Rios. Except for Reed, they were all a bit long in the tooth. For guys like that, you just get players to fill in your minor leagues. You aren't going to get players who will be anything close to impact major league talent.
    That being said, I agree that the White Sox have been shitty at evaluating talent. But it really looks like Hahn is now in charge.
    And just as long as those "sabermetric minds" are coupled with "baseball minds". I doubt if a bean counter is going to be able to look at statistics and see what a butcher Tank was.

    Granted, none of these guys were going to bring in blue chip talent but they were useful for teams in the hunt that year and that is where digging into other clubs' minor league systems to find jewels in the rough can really pay off.   Hate to keep bringing up the Cubs, but that's exactly how they got Kyle Hendricks - for a 35 yr old Ryan Dempster whose career wasn't even as good as Peavy's.   It was Sox's bias for these athletes that got them a guy like Garcia for Peavy instead - another deal with Kenny's fingerprints on it.
    As to whether Hahn is fully in charge now - hard to say.  Don't expect Kenny to go quietly into the night but hopefully Hahn will have more control.  Kenny doesn't have many laurels to rest on in these last 10 years.
    As to Tank, it was hard to have any reliable stats from Cuba to go on, but once he got into the Sox system his horrendous BB/K ratio (just like Garcia's) pretty much told the tale of how unlikely it would be for him to make it.



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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:24 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:PRAISE BUDDHAH THE SABERMETRIC MINDS FOR THE NATIONALS COMPLETELY OVERRATED ADAM EATON
    LET'S ALL JERK OFF OVER A B+ PLAYER AND HIS 6 POINT WAR
    *****************************
    AND LETS NEVER EVER FORGET IT WAS THE KARK THAT SAID THE DAMN THING SHOULD HAVE BEEN TORN DOWN 6 YEARS AGO WHEN THE FREE AGENCY DEPARTURES OF KONERKO, PIERZYNSKI, AND PUTZ WOULD HAVE NETTED THEM 5 SANDWICH PICKS GIVING THEM AT LEAST 7 OF THE FIRST 90 PICKS IN 2011.
    INSTEAD , NOT ONLY TO THEY BRING BACK KONERKO AND AJ, THEY PISSED AWAY THE REST OF THEIR DRAFT PICKS ON ADAM "FREAKIN" DUNN!!!!!!!
    SO NO, ITS FAR FROM ROCKER SCIENCE WHEN SOME NOBODY SCHMUCK FAN HAD IT FIGURED OUT 6 YEARS AGO
    PS, THE BIGGEST SABR GUY ON THIS BOARD WAS THE ONLY ONE DUMB ENOUGH TO DEFEND THE JOHN DANKS SIGNING!!!!

    Eaton had a career year in 2016 and the Sox did well to make hay off it.  As to whether the Nats "over-rated" him, maybe to some degree if they expect great defense in CF.  He has been a steady .360 OBP leadoff guy though and with Nats' firepower, he'll likely score a lot more runs than when he had guys like LaRoche, Frazier, and lately Abreu hitting behind him.
    For the umpteenth time, I never defended the Danks signing.  I said it was unnecessary and the Sox could and should have waited until he was into his pre-free agent season in 2012 rather than rushing into an extension in 2011. 
    As to whether the Sox should have done a rebuild in 2011, good question.  They had just come off a 88 win season in 2010 so there was some rationale for staying the course. 
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:41 pm

    Deplorable Mark wrote:I SUPPOSE GARCIA PREVENTS THE SOX FROM PISSING AWAY TONS OF CASH ON THE NEXT ADAM LADOUCHE
    HOPEFULLY HE WON'T TAKE TIME AWAY FROM TILLSON OR ENGEL OR MAY, 3 PLAYERS THAT NEED TO START THEIR MLB CAREER'S NOW

    Hopefully the Eaton trade won't renew the "Garcia is a RFer" experiment.  Tillson should get a shot at starting CF if fully recovered. He could have some decent potential.
    Not seeing what you apparently might be in either Engel (who's only hit .250-ish in high A, AA and AAA) or Jacob May (mid 600 OPS's in AA and AAA).  They are both turning 25 so it's not like they were stuggling because of being a little too young for those levels.  Granted, Sox have no one standing in their way, but that doesn't mean either look capable of handling the majors at this point. Or ever.

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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:43 pm

    The 2016 WIN NOW Shit Show was one for the ages!!


    NO CATCHER!!


    Guys signed OFF THE STREET......Rollins, Latos, Jackson and Morneau!!!!!


    WIN NOW has been a disaster.  An absolute scam.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by rmapasad on Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:52 pm

    Shooters Buffet wrote:The 2016 WIN NOW Shit Show was one for the ages!!
    NO CATCHER!!
    Guys signed OFF THE STREET......Rollins, Latos, Jackson and Morneau!!!!!
     WIN NOW has been a disaster.  An absolute scam.
    It all started with a dumb win-now strategy of 2015 which cut short the rebuild started in mid 2013. 
    Even with Eaton/Abreu/Sale/Quintana all doing well, the team won a measly 73 games in 2014.  There were big holes at Catcher, DH, 2b, 3b, LF and RF,  3rd/4th starting pitcher and bullpen.  Plus Ramirez and Danks (by then a 5th starter), who both should have been scuttled in 2013-2014, were still around to create more problems at their spots.

    Any offseason pickups in 2015 should have been made with a true 3 year plan in mind, instead of the fake 3 year plan Kenny announced.  Get guys who will be with you in 2017-2018, not a 35 year old LaRoche, an inconsistent 30 yr old ex-doper Cabrera, or 32 yr old Zach Duke.  Don't trade a promising 23 yr old SS/2b (Semien) for Samardzija who's a free agent the next season.

    2016 was simply the gambler chasing after his losses by doubling down.  Trade young Frankie Montas for 2 years of Todd Frazier.  "Fix" 2b by believing that Lawrie will re-capture his rookie year glories of 2011 and hey, he's inexpensive to boot.   For the same reason of cost, "fix" SS with a completely done Rollins, RHed starter with head-case Latos, and CF with Jackson.  Then when the season is slipping away, in another desperation move trade a 18 yr old hitter for the fading Shields.

    Not only did the Sox decide to play win-now prematurely in 2015, through cheapness and wishful thinking nearly all the win-now moves were botches.  Hopefully the front office will not repeat these same mistakes anytime soon.
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    Re: Eaton Gone

    Post by Deplorable Mark on Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:29 am

    Quick note to Roger re may & engel

    As Stephen stills once sang, love the one your with

    And it's quite obvious the white Sox will not be with the ones they love in THE OF in 2017

    THE KARK ain't impressed with them.  But the appear to have enough to be good bench players.  A good bench matters

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