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    Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Guest on Fri May 13, 2016 8:38 pm

    If you're Hahn, is there a thought in the back of your mind about tearing up Sales current contract and trying to extend him Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Soxillinirob on Fri May 13, 2016 9:10 pm

    Isn't Sale on the record recently stating that he wants to stay with the Sox and that they need not make the highest offer?  A home team discount.  Shit, if he's offering, I'm buying. 
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by alohafri on Fri May 13, 2016 10:44 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:Isn't Sale on the record recently stating that he wants to stay with the Sox and that they need not make the highest offer?  A home team discount.  Shit, if he's offering, I'm buying. 

    Yeah, if that's true, jump!

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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Guest on Sat May 14, 2016 12:31 pm

    Isn't Sale signed thru 2020?

    That said, I'd to see Sale in another uniform

    Hey, didn't the Royals experiment with lifetime contracts I the 80s?

    Maybe the Sox can get this creative
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by jaywit on Sat May 14, 2016 2:21 pm

    I'd wait at least until mid-August and see if he gets another dead arm before I'd offer him anything more.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Cream1953 on Sat May 14, 2016 11:03 pm

    Jay....please quit posting avatars of my old girlfriends.  Evil or Very Mad
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by TeleFrank on Sun May 15, 2016 5:59 pm

    Yeah that worked so well with John Danks. 
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Sun May 15, 2016 7:44 pm

    What idiocy.


    Reinsdorf always tears up contracts to offer MORE MONEY!!


    FANBOY CRAP.


    Last edited by Shooters Buffet on Mon May 16, 2016 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Guest on Sun May 15, 2016 9:01 pm

    Shooters Buffet wrote:What idiocy.


    Reinsdorf always years up contracts to offer MORE MONEY!!


    FANBOY CRAP.

    Says the king Fan Ass who wanted to give Beckham a 10 yr deal ...keep it up Mr Carnegie
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Mon May 16, 2016 6:29 am

    I guess all of these media reports about Sale's TEAM FRIENDLY contract don't get to Columbus.


    Remember when Reinsdorf tore up the ripoff contracts Pippen and Jordan signed?  Either do I.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Mon May 16, 2016 6:41 am

    Chi-kid wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:What idiocy.


    Reinsdorf always years up contracts to offer MORE MONEY!!


    FANBOY CRAP.

    Says the king Fan Ass who wanted to give Beckham a 10 yr deal ...keep it up Mr Carnegie
    Beckham is going to have a breakout year.  He LOOKS like a ballplayer!!  All Star, too.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Mon May 16, 2016 7:11 am

    Chi-kid wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:What idiocy.


    Reinsdorf always years up contracts to offer MORE MONEY!!


    FANBOY CRAP.

    Says the king Fan Ass who wanted to give Beckham a 10 yr deal ...keep it up Mr Carnegie
    A thought in the back of Hahn's mind!!!!!  ROTFLMFAO.  He had better keep it to himself if he wants continued employment by Jerry Reinsdorf.

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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Guest on Mon May 16, 2016 3:12 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:What idiocy.


    Reinsdorf always years up contracts to offer MORE MONEY!!


    FANBOY CRAP.

    Says the king Fan Ass who wanted to give Beckham a 10 yr deal ...keep it up Mr Carnegie



    Sales contract runs thru 2017 with the Sox having an option in both 2018 and 2019 for $12.5MM and $13.5MM respectively.  Sale turns 30 on March 30, 2019.

    Personally, I think its a tad too early to think about 2020.

    BTW, whatever money the White Sox are saving now on Sale won't mean a damn thing in 2022 if he's making $35MM a year is doing a Tim Lincecum impersonation.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Mon May 16, 2016 4:12 pm

    The idea that HAHN can just tear up the contract is straight out of a Fanboy Meeting.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by rmapasad on Mon May 16, 2016 4:54 pm

    tHe SicKo FANt wrote:
    Chi-kid wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:What idiocy.


    Reinsdorf always years up contracts to offer MORE MONEY!!


    FANBOY CRAP.

    Says the king Fan Ass who wanted to give Beckham a 10 yr deal ...keep it up Mr Carnegie



    Sales contract runs thru 2017 with the Sox having an option in both 2018 and 2019 for $12.5MM and $13.5MM respectively.  Sale turns 30 on March 30, 2019.

    Personally, I think its a tad too early to think about 2020.

    BTW, whatever money the White Sox are saving now on Sale won't mean a damn thing in 2022 if he's making $35MM a year is doing a Tim Lincecum impersonation.


    Agree with this.  As good as Sale looks now, 2020 is another matter.  Lots can happen to pitchers in the interim.   Good news is that Sale is doing well this year despite a 2 mph drop in average velocity and a 40% reduction in his swinging strike rate.  He's already smart enough to begin the process of converting himself from a pitcher that overpowers hitters to one that uses his fielders more to get outs.  Which means his chances of having a longer career are better.   That said, now that Sale is down to 92 mph average velocity,  he's entering territory where any added drop in velocity could become troublesome.   As such, to rip up his contract now and pay him like he'll stay a top 5 pitcher after age 30 would be a emotional, foolhardy gesture that could eventually cost the Sox big, big $$.   Sox have plenty of time to see where he will be come 2019.  Let them wait until then to decide.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Mon May 16, 2016 5:21 pm

    Naw, pretend this is not a business.  It is pure sport.


    Rip up his contract and give him $25,000,000 per season for the duration of this deal.


    Pay him what he is worth!!


    ROTFLMFAO!!


    Sale is the dumb ass who signed this deal.


    Sign your arbitration rights away!!


    DUMB FUCK.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by rmapasad on Mon May 16, 2016 7:05 pm

    Shooters Buffet wrote:Naw, pretend this is not a business.  It is pure sport.


    Rip up his contract and give him $25,000,000 per season for the duration of this deal.


    Pay him what he is worth!!


    ROTFLMFAO!!


    Sale is the dumb ass who signed this deal.


    Sign your arbitration rights away!!


    DUMB FUCK.


    Looking at Sale's deal v. Strasberg (who was repped by Scott Boras), Sale wasn't hosed so much in his arb years.   He's gotten only $ 4 million less cumulatively than Strasberg (who broke in the same time as Sale) these last three arb years.  Where Sale made his big mistake was bargaining away his first three years of free agency at cut-rate prices.   Strasberg just signed a big extension guaranteeing him $ 100 million (3/5 deferred) over his first three free agent years plus the right to opt out and go test free agency after 2019.  Sale, OTOH, will get $ 38 million over these next three years, assuming the Sox fully exercise their two option years.    Sale would be in a far different boat had he been with Scott Boras. Of course, the Sox would likely not have signed him in the amateur draft if Boras had repped him.

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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Mon May 16, 2016 7:22 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:Naw, pretend this is not a business.  It is pure sport.


    Rip up his contract and give him $25,000,000 per season for the duration of this deal.


    Pay him what he is worth!!


    ROTFLMFAO!!


    Sale is the dumb ass who signed this deal.


    Sign your arbitration rights away!!


    DUMB FUCK.


    Looking at Sale's deal v. Strasberg (who was repped by Scott Boras), Sale wasn't hosed so much in his arb years.   He's gotten only $ 4 million less cumulatively than Strasberg (who broke in the same time as Sale) these last three arb years.  Where Sale made his big mistake was bargaining away his first three years of free agency at cut-rate prices.   Strasberg just signed a big extension guaranteeing him $ 100 million (3/5 deferred) over his first three free agent years plus the right to opt out and go test free agency after 2019.  Sale, OTOH, will get $ 38 million over these next three years, assuming the Sox fully exercise their two option years.    Sale would be in a far different boat had he been with Scott Boras. Of course, the Sox would likely not have signed him in the amateur draft if Boras had repped him.

    The Sox have to save money on guys like Sale so they have enough money to sign guys like Dunn and LaRoche. clown

    Actually they win some and they lose some.  Sale's and Quintana's contracts were big winners for Reinsdorf while the Danks and Dunn deals were big losers.

    I wouldn't call Sale dumb.  He had to weigh the possibility of getting injured early and thus receiving zilch over a contract worth tens of millions while leaving a lot of money on the table.  He settled for security over risk.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by rmapasad on Mon May 16, 2016 8:08 pm

    MGJOHNSON wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:Naw, pretend this is not a business.  It is pure sport.


    Rip up his contract and give him $25,000,000 per season for the duration of this deal.


    Pay him what he is worth!!


    ROTFLMFAO!!


    Sale is the dumb ass who signed this deal.


    Sign your arbitration rights away!!


    DUMB FUCK.


    Looking at Sale's deal v. Strasberg (who was repped by Scott Boras), Sale wasn't hosed so much in his arb years.   He's gotten only $ 4 million less cumulatively than Strasberg (who broke in the same time as Sale) these last three arb years.  Where Sale made his big mistake was bargaining away his first three years of free agency at cut-rate prices.   Strasberg just signed a big extension guaranteeing him $ 100 million (3/5 deferred) over his first three free agent years plus the right to opt out and go test free agency after 2019.  Sale, OTOH, will get $ 38 million over these next three years, assuming the Sox fully exercise their two option years.    Sale would be in a far different boat had he been with Scott Boras. Of course, the Sox would likely not have signed him in the amateur draft if Boras had repped him.

    The Sox have to save money on guys like Sale so they have enough money to sign guys like Dunn and LaRoche. clown

    Actually they win some and they lose some.  Sale's and Quintana's contracts were big winners for Reinsdorf while the Danks and Dunn deals were big losers.

    I wouldn't call Sale dumb.  He had to weigh the possibility of getting injured early and thus receiving zilch over a contract worth tens of millions while leaving a lot of money on the table.  He settled for security over risk.

    Mart, Kenny Williams deserves credit for is being an early adopter of the trend to get good younger players into extensions. He did that with DAnks and Floyd to cover their arb years .  Hahn has taken this to another level with the Sale, Quintana and Eaton extensions by not only buying out the arb years but capturing 2-3 seasons of their free agency.  Best of all, Hahn has done that with option years on those first few FA seasons, so if a guy has gotten injured or sucks by the time free agency comes along, the Sox aren't committed.   Clubs don't often go wrong on those kind of deals, because they are usually paying less than they would if they let the guy go arb those years and a LOT less those first 2-3 years of buying out a guy's free agency.  Plus if the FA years are just options for the club, they have minimal buyout risk (usually $ 1 mill per yr. buyouts).

    I agree players take the security of known, assured dollars for those 4-6 year deals rather than hold out for the big bucks.  But the ones who are willing to gamble that they won't got hurt or stumble before they reach free agency end up winning the lottery when they do hit free agency.   By the time guys like Sale, Quintana, and Eaton become free agents they may be in decline already and will miss out on their big paydays.

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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by frank bonifacic on Mon May 16, 2016 8:47 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    MGJOHNSON wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    Shooters Buffet wrote:Naw, pretend this is not a business.  It is pure sport.


    Rip up his contract and give him $25,000,000 per season for the duration of this deal.


    Pay him what he is worth!!


    ROTFLMFAO!!


    Sale is the dumb ass who signed this deal.


    Sign your arbitration rights away!!


    DUMB FUCK.


    Looking at Sale's deal v. Strasberg (who was repped by Scott Boras), Sale wasn't hosed so much in his arb years.   He's gotten only $ 4 million less cumulatively than Strasberg (who broke in the same time as Sale) these last three arb years.  Where Sale made his big mistake was bargaining away his first three years of free agency at cut-rate prices.   Strasberg just signed a big extension guaranteeing him $ 100 million (3/5 deferred) over his first three free agent years plus the right to opt out and go test free agency after 2019.  Sale, OTOH, will get $ 38 million over these next three years, assuming the Sox fully exercise their two option years.    Sale would be in a far different boat had he been with Scott Boras. Of course, the Sox would likely not have signed him in the amateur draft if Boras had repped him.

    The Sox have to save money on guys like Sale so they have enough money to sign guys like Dunn and LaRoche. clown

    Actually they win some and they lose some.  Sale's and Quintana's contracts were big winners for Reinsdorf while the Danks and Dunn deals were big losers.

    I wouldn't call Sale dumb.  He had to weigh the possibility of getting injured early and thus receiving zilch over a contract worth tens of millions while leaving a lot of money on the table.  He settled for security over risk.

    Mart, Kenny Williams deserves credit for is being an early adopter of the trend to get good younger players into extensions. He did that with DAnks and Floyd to cover their arb years .  Hahn has taken this to another level with the Sale, Quintana and Eaton extensions by not only buying out the arb years but capturing 2-3 seasons of their free agency.  Best of all, Hahn has done that with option years on those first few FA seasons, so if a guy has gotten injured or sucks by the time free agency comes along, the Sox aren't committed.   Clubs don't often go wrong on those kind of deals, because they are usually paying less than they would if they let the guy go arb those years and a LOT less those first 2-3 years of buying out a guy's free agency.  Plus if the FA years are just options for the club, they have minimal buyout risk (usually $ 1 mill per yr. buyouts).

    I agree players take the security of known, assured dollars for those 4-6 year deals rather than hold out for the big bucks.  But the ones who are willing to gamble that they won't got hurt or stumble before they reach free agency end up winning the lottery when they do hit free agency.   By the time guys like Sale, Quintana, and Eaton become free agents they may be in decline already and will miss out on their big paydays.
    oh the ignominy, the shame! Having to settle for 8 million per year for 6 years at the advanced age of TWENTY-THREE!!
    He'll never recover- plus he's the laughing stock of the entire country!!
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by rmapasad on Tue May 17, 2016 2:34 pm

    Sure, from the standpoint of the normal person baseball players' salaries are outlandish.  But the top dogs feel they deserve to be paid considerably more than the an average Joe starting pitcher who makes "only"  $ 10 million per.  
    From 2012 -present, Chris Sale has been the 3rd most valuable pitcher in baseball behind Kershaw, and very close to # 2 David Price, who now is making $ 30 million +per.   Sale has topped Verlander, King Felix, Hamels, Greinke, Scherzer, Lester, and Tanaka all of whom will be making anywhere from $ 23 - $ 33 million per from 2016-2019.   Sale, OTOH, will make an average of $ 12 mil per from 2016-2019 thanks to signing that extension with the Sox.  Had he simply played out his arb years with the Sox, not only would he be making a goodly amount more than his current $ 9 mil this year but he would be a free agent in 2017 and looking at a 7 year $ 200-225 million deal.  So yeah, he's left a ton of money on the table by his agent letting him sign that extension in 2013 when he was at the very start of his career. 

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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by frank bonifacic on Tue May 17, 2016 8:13 pm

    rmapasad wrote:Sure, from the standpoint of the normal person baseball players' salaries are outlandish.  But the top dogs feel they deserve to be paid considerably more than the an average Joe starting pitcher who makes "only"  $ 10 million per.  
    From 2012 -present, Chris Sale has been the 3rd most valuable pitcher in baseball behind Kershaw, and very close to # 2 David Price, who now is making $ 30 million +per.   Sale has topped Verlander, King Felix, Hamels, Greinke, Scherzer, Lester, and Tanaka all of whom will be making anywhere from $ 23 - $ 33 million per from 2016-2019.   Sale, OTOH, will make an average of $ 12 mil per from 2016-2019 thanks to signing that extension with the Sox.  Had he simply played out his arb years with the Sox, not only would he be making a goodly amount more than his current $ 9 mil this year but he would be a free agent in 2017 and looking at a 7 year $ 200-225 million deal.  So yeah, he's left a ton of money on the table by his agent letting him sign that extension in 2013 when he was at the very start of his career. 
    If you were his agent - after he left the bullpen- and you looked at still photos of his delivery, paying particular attention to his elbow and shoulder position, would you tell him to hold out for the future?? 
    What was total on contract $50-60 million?
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by rmapasad on Tue May 17, 2016 9:26 pm

    If you were his agent - after he left the bullpen- and you looked at still photos of his delivery, paying particular attention to his elbow and shoulder position, would you tell him to hold out for the future?? What was total on contract $50-60 million?  >>

    You have a point in that Sale's delivery seems to put stress on shoulder and elbow.  It's hardly classic over-the-top.  So yeah, with the real possibility of an injury there is some logic to taking a guaranteed deal in 2013.  Sale's guaranteed money is "only" $ 32.5 mil for five years ending in 2017.  If the Sox pick up both 2018 and 2019 option years, Sale gets
    $ 57 million over 7 years, plus an added $ 2.5 million if he wins the Cy Young sometime before 2018. 
    With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight it's possible to see how much money Sale left on the table.  Even if he wanted some form of security, he could have locked up just his arb years.  Or simply locked in his first year of free agency in 2017.   I think his agent's biggest mistake was giving the Sox the two option years in 2018 and 2019.  There was virtually nothing to gain from that move except a $ 1 million buyout and in return the Sox now get to keep Sale for those two years at 40% of his true market value (assuming Sale stays close to his current performance level).   Not only that, but Sale is deprived of the chance to lock in a big 7-8 year deal while he's still in his prime after the 2017 season.  I think his agent screwed the pooch.
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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by jaywit on Tue May 17, 2016 11:09 pm

    frank bonifacic wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:Sure, from the standpoint of the normal person baseball players' salaries are outlandish.  But the top dogs feel they deserve to be paid considerably more than the an average Joe starting pitcher who makes "only"  $ 10 million per.  
    From 2012 -present, Chris Sale has been the 3rd most valuable pitcher in baseball behind Kershaw, and very close to # 2 David Price, who now is making $ 30 million +per.   Sale has topped Verlander, King Felix, Hamels, Greinke, Scherzer, Lester, and Tanaka all of whom will be making anywhere from $ 23 - $ 33 million per from 2016-2019.   Sale, OTOH, will make an average of $ 12 mil per from 2016-2019 thanks to signing that extension with the Sox.  Had he simply played out his arb years with the Sox, not only would he be making a goodly amount more than his current $ 9 mil this year but he would be a free agent in 2017 and looking at a 7 year $ 200-225 million deal.  So yeah, he's left a ton of money on the table by his agent letting him sign that extension in 2013 when he was at the very start of his career. 
    If you were his agent - after he left the bullpen- and you looked at still photos of his delivery, paying particular attention to his elbow and shoulder position, would you tell him to hold out for the future?? 
    What was total on contract $50-60 million?
    Good point Frank.  Add to that the fact that he becomes a mediocrity after July.

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    Re: Rrrrrrrrrr-iiiiiii-ppp

    Post by frank bonifacic on Wed May 18, 2016 8:12 am

    jaywit wrote:
    frank bonifacic wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:Sure, from the standpoint of the normal person baseball players' salaries are outlandish.  But the top dogs feel they deserve to be paid considerably more than the an average Joe starting pitcher who makes "only"  $ 10 million per.  
    From 2012 -present, Chris Sale has been the 3rd most valuable pitcher in baseball behind Kershaw, and very close to # 2 David Price, who now is making $ 30 million +per.   Sale has topped Verlander, King Felix, Hamels, Greinke, Scherzer, Lester, and Tanaka all of whom will be making anywhere from $ 23 - $ 33 million per from 2016-2019.   Sale, OTOH, will make an average of $ 12 mil per from 2016-2019 thanks to signing that extension with the Sox.  Had he simply played out his arb years with the Sox, not only would he be making a goodly amount more than his current $ 9 mil this year but he would be a free agent in 2017 and looking at a 7 year $ 200-225 million deal.  So yeah, he's left a ton of money on the table by his agent letting him sign that extension in 2013 when he was at the very start of his career. 
    If you were his agent - after he left the bullpen- and you looked at still photos of his delivery, paying particular attention to his elbow and shoulder position, would you tell him to homeld out for the future?? 
    What was total on contract $50-60 million?
    Good point Frank.  Add to that the fact that he becomes a mediocrity after July.

    Don't think that happens this year. Like his emphasis on allowing defense to help-ala Buehrle- and throwing pitches that get hit. the other night he had a 5 pitch inning. And you saw his 99 pitch complete game

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