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    DEAL OF BAD DEALS

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    DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:22 am

    JOHN DANKS AND ADAM LAROUCHE FOR CARL CRAWFORD

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:26 am

    Is this on the table?

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:51 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:Is this on the table?

    Probably not, because the Dodgers wouldn't want either Danks or LaRoche.  Sure, they would like to unload Crawford's contract, but they are not suicidal.
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:29 am

    Probably not, because the Dodgers wouldn't want either Danks or LaRoche.  Sure, they would like to unload Crawford's contract, but they are not suicidal.>
    Can say definitively that as much as Dodgers would love to unload Crawford's contract, they would have zero interest in LaRoche or Danks.  Even if LaRoche or Danks were worth a shit (which they aren't) Dodgers have Adrian Gonzalez at 1b, and already have 4 LHers in the rotation. 

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Guest on Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:46 am

    DANK HAS VALUE

    MAYBE NOT IN A FANTASY LEAGUE

    BUT IN REAL LIFE, HE DOES HAVE VALUE.

    NOT $15MIL WORTH OF VALUE, BUT HE CAN EAT INNINGS AND GIVE YOU A 50/50 CHANCE OF WINNING IN MOST STARTS.

    *********************************

    THAT SAID, I'D LOVE TO SEE HIM USED LIKE JERRY KOOSMAN.  20 STARTS 20 RELIEFS

    30 YEARS AGO, IT SEEM EVERY TEAM HAD ONE OF THOSE.

    DOES ANYBODY FIT THAT CATEGORY ANY MORE?
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:29 pm

    DANK HAS VALUE
    MAYBE NOT IN A FANTASY LEAGUE
    BUT IN REAL LIFE, HE DOES HAVE VALUE.
    NOT $15MIL WORTH OF VALUE, BUT HE CAN EAT INNINGS AND GIVE YOU A 50/50 CHANCE OF WINNING IN MOST STARTS.
    *********************************
    THAT SAID, I'D LOVE TO SEE HIM USED LIKE JERRY KOOSMAN.  20 STARTS 20 RELIEFS
    30 YEARS AGO, IT SEEM EVERY TEAM HAD ONE OF THOSE.
    DOES ANYBODY FIT THAT CATEGORY ANY MORE?



    Agree he had SOME value in 2014. That year he was more useful than his ERA made him appear as he had 21 good or decent starts v. 11 crummy ones,   But in 2015 he had 17 good/decent starts v. 13 bad ones, and 9 of were real disasters v. "only" 6 disasters in 2014.  So not only is the trendline bad but it's at the point where the ratio of bad to good means he really belongs in the starter trashcan.
    He still has some modest effectiveness v. LHed hitters so relieving is an option.  But since 2/3 of all hitters are RHers, even as a reliever, he probably isn't going to be good for that many innings.  Unless he comes in after Sale or Rodon who throw gas and Danks can get them off balance with his junk for a couple innings.  

    He'd be OK if he could consistently throw 6 innings with 3 runs, but in 2015 he was Jekyll/Hyde. You never knew what to expect, but the bad shit was happening
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Cream1953 on Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:57 pm

    I don't care what the White Sox get in return for LaRoche and Danks, I get serious wood just thinking about them being gone! Addition by subtraction!
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:39 am

    Seems to me, Cooper and Ventura have worn out every bullpen by June lately.


    It also helps to catch the ball behind the pitchers.

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:02 am

    rmapasad wrote:DANK HAS VALUE
    MAYBE NOT IN A FANTASY LEAGUE
    BUT IN REAL LIFE, HE DOES HAVE VALUE.
    NOT $15MIL WORTH OF VALUE, BUT HE CAN EAT INNINGS AND GIVE YOU A 50/50 CHANCE OF WINNING IN MOST STARTS.
    *********************************
    THAT SAID, I'D LOVE TO SEE HIM USED LIKE JERRY KOOSMAN.  20 STARTS 20 RELIEFS
    30 YEARS AGO, IT SEEM EVERY TEAM HAD ONE OF THOSE.
    DOES ANYBODY FIT THAT CATEGORY ANY MORE?



    Agree he had SOME value in 2014. That year he was more useful than his ERA made him appear as he had 21 good or decent starts v. 11 crummy ones,   But in 2015 he had 17 good/decent starts v. 13 bad ones, and 9 of were real disasters v. "only" 6 disasters in 2014.  So not only is the trendline bad but it's at the point where the ratio of bad to good means he really belongs in the starter trashcan.
    He still has some modest effectiveness v. LHed hitters so relieving is an option.  But since 2/3 of all hitters are RHers, even as a reliever, he probably isn't going to be good for that many innings.  Unless he comes in after Sale or Rodon who throw gas and Danks can get them off balance with his junk for a couple innings.  

    He'd be OK if he could consistently throw 6 innings with 3 runs, but in 2015 he was Jekyll/Hyde. You never knew what to expect, but the bad shit was happening


    SO BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, DANKS HAD MORE GOOD STARTS THAN BAD

    SOUNDS LIKE MY 50/50 COMMENT WAS DEAD ON.

    YET YOU STILL TRY TO DELIBERATELY DISAGREE WITH A STATEMENT YOU JUST CONFIRMED WAS BASICALLY CORRECT

    YOU REEALLY SHOULD SEE SOMEONE ABOUT THIS OCD YOU HAVE ABOUT CORRECTING EVERY STATEMENT MADE ABOUT A WHITE SOX PLAYER
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:05 am

    LET'S GET OUT TO GLENSDALE TO STALK SOX PLAYERS!!!
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:47 am

    tHe SicKo FANt wrote:


    Agree he had SOME value in 2014. That year he was more useful than his ERA made him appear as he had 21 good or decent starts v. 11 crummy ones,   But in 2015 he had 17 good/decent starts v. 13 bad ones, and 9 of were real disasters v. "only" 6 disasters in 2014.  So not only is the trendline bad but it's at the point where the ratio of bad to good means he really belongs in the starter trashcan.
    He still has some modest effectiveness v. LHed hitters so relieving is an option.  But since 2/3 of all hitters are RHers, even as a reliever, he probably isn't going to be good for that many innings.  Unless he comes in after Sale or Rodon who throw gas and Danks can get them off balance with his junk for a couple innings.  


    SO BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, DANKS HAD MORE GOOD STARTS THAN BAD

    SOUNDS LIKE MY 50/50 COMMENT WAS DEAD ON.

    YET YOU STILL TRY TO DELIBERATELY DISAGREE WITH A STATEMENT YOU JUST CONFIRMED WAS BASICALLY CORRECT

    YOU REEALLY SHOULD SEE SOMEONE ABOUT THIS OCD YOU HAVE ABOUT CORRECTING EVERY STATEMENT MADE ABOUT A WHITE SOX PLAYER

    Of course I admitted Danks had more OK starts than bad.. But that wasn't the point. Point was barely over 50/50 is lousy. That's a guy you want to bump out of the rotation especially on a team that doesn't score a lot of runs.   Sox were 13-17 in games he started, and Dank was responsible for 14 of those losses. Plus the Sox luckily won 2 games where he gave up 6+ runs in the first 5 innings.  He was a net liability in 2015.

    Here's the bottom line: cheap-ass Reinsdorf wouldn't spring for BOTH Yovanni Galardo and Latos , which would have given the Sox 3 strong LHers and 2 decent RHers in the rotation and enabled both Danks and Johnson (or Latos) to have gone to the bullpen.

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:23 pm

    with the Latos signing, Danks better be targeted for the pen now
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by jaywit on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:34 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:I don't care what the White Sox get in return for LaRoche and Danks, I get serious wood just thinking about them being gone! Addition by subtraction!
    Spare us the visuals, Mr. Toothpick.

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:48 pm

    I think we are premature in ejaculating Mr LaRoche out of Chicago - yea he sucked last year, but some of that (lot of that?) had to do with switching leagues and not knowing the pitchers. I think some of it had to do with him not being in the field for the first time in his life and getting used to the DH. (there some benefit to being an entire player, which is why I think Abreu doesn't like to DH)  He is, or was, a good ballplayer and good hitter. I am expecting him to bounce back and have a more typical LaRoche year

    As for Danks - left handed situational guy and emergency starter - end

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:04 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:I think we are premature in ejaculating Mr LaRoche out of Chicago - yea he sucked last year, but some of that (lot of that?) had to do with switching leagues and not knowing the pitchers. I think some of it had to do with him not being in the field for the first time in his life and getting used to the DH. (there some benefit to being an entire player, which is why I think Abreu doesn't like to DH)  He is, or was, a good ballplayer and good hitter. I am expecting him to bounce back and have a more typical LaRoche year

    As for Danks - left handed situational guy and emergency starter - end

    I'm not so hopeful on Adam LaRoche, Tim, but the points that you make are good ones.  Some hitters don't adjust quickly when they change leagues, and some have trouble adjusting to DH'ing.  LaRoche was also battling a wrist injury last year which easily could have sapped his power.  All this said, I think his decline has more to do with age.  If his wrist is alright, I don't expect him to be as bad as he was last season; but he's past his prime.
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:40 pm

    All this said, I think his decline has more to do with age.  If his wrist is alright, I don't expect him to be as bad as he was last season; but he's past his prime.>>
    Bingo.  Even though his history suggests he should have been better than last year, he's 36 now and may not improve enough  to avoid being a liability.  There are still  guys out there (Byrd, Morneau, Alvarez, Raburn, Joyce, Jackson, Snider) who should be considered as fallbacks (or at least platoonmates) for LaRoche.   [size=13]No reason to show excessive loyalty to and optimism about LaRoche rebounding when there are other Plan B's in case he's finished.  Some of them might even fit the Sox's tight-ass budget.
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Cream1953 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:50 pm

    Spare us the visuals, Mr. Toothpick.


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    Fueling your fantasies eh??  Twisted Evil
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Cream1953 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:00 pm

    but some of that (lot of that?) had to do with switching leagues and not knowing the pitchers. 


    *****************************************************************


    Baseball offers up more excuses for failure than any other professional sport and many of those excuses strike me as just plain silly. This is one of the silliest. 


    Last time I checked regardless of the league, the baseball is the same diameter, the distance from home plate to pitcher's mound is the same and the ball is is ALWAYS being thrown by a flesh and blood human being attempting to throw the damn thing in a spot where the batter is least likely to hit it. 


    It's the batter's job to hit the ball regardless of who throws it, where it's being thrown and how it's being thrown. In other words, hit the fucking thing!!!
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by rmapasad on Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:39 am

    Cream1953 wrote:Baseball offers up more excuses for failure than any other professional sport and many of those excuses strike me as just plain silly. This is one of the silliest. 


    Last time I checked regardless of the league, the baseball is the same diameter, the distance from home plate to pitcher's mound is the same and the ball is is ALWAYS being thrown by a flesh and blood human being attempting to throw the damn thing in a spot where the batter is least likely to hit it. 


    It's the batter's job to hit the ball regardless of who throws it, where it's being thrown and how it's being thrown. In other words, hit the fucking thing!!!

    I agree with you on a gut level, but I keep hearing that the AL is the tougher league. In checking interleague records, the AL has bested the NL every one of the last 5 seasons.  The AL has has won 54% of those games, which is not a huge difference, but it might be enough to justify the belief that guys can stumble a bit when they switch over to the AL.
    Both Dunn and LaRoche didn't just stumble a bit their first year in AL -they fell right off the fucking cliff.  Switching leagues explains only 10% of their problems. I still believe that tall sluggers, unless they're bonafide stars like Thomas or Thome, can turn to shit quickly in their early to mid 30's.  Dunn bounced back some but never got back to his NL levels. If Dunn at ages 32-34 couldn't get back to his old levels, what can be expected of a 36 yr old LaRoche ?  Not a helluva lot, IMO.
    Sox would be crazy not to be shopping remaining free agents for a Plan B at the DH spot.

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Guest on Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:16 am

    In one of his last Abstracts, 86 maybe, Bill James did a lengthy study regarding age and performance.

    Going off memory, James came to a similar conclusion about how or not unusual for a player to suddenly lose it in his early 30's

    I guess the difference between today and 1986 is that on 86 you would cut the guy and people wouldn't notice because the LaRouches of the world would begin their real estate or insurance careers

    Today, they are forced into the lineup because they are still owed $50 million over the next 3 years
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:39 am

    Which is why MONEY ruined the game.


    This is basically a crashing bore.


    Wait for some over the hill bum like Dunn and LaRoche to hit a 3 run homer.


    BELIEVE!!!
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by rmapasad on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:46 pm

    Which is why MONEY ruined the game.


    < This is basically a crashing bore.
    Wait for some over the hill bum like Dunn and LaRoche to hit a 3 run homer.>


    Superstars aren't necessarily the root of the money problem.  Yeah, they can take owners for a ride sometimes.  But many of the bonafide stars like Kershaw, Scherzer, Greinke, Lester, etc earn their big salaries.   Where it gets crazy is in the $ 12-20 million salary range.  Most of these guys are inconsistent B/C+ players and just luckily hit free agency in their early 30's after having decent years. Because of the scarcity of free agents, the Dunns, Cabreras, and LaRoches can get those kind of salaries. Then go right into the toilet as soon as the ink is dry on the contract.

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Guest on Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:30 pm

    Because of the scarcity of free agents, the Dunns, Cabreras, and LaRoches can get those kind of salaries. Then go right into the toilet as soon as the ink is dry on the contract.

    And this why I am opposed to a salary cap and at odds with Rosebowl.  Nobody is holding a gun to the head of the Hahn's and Reinsdorf's of the world. They don't HAVE to pay Dunn all that money. They ALL have the same stats available to you that you occasionally bury us with. If they are all so definitive and informative, seems like the powers that be don't believe them either, or choose not to.

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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Guest on Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:22 am

    I'm Marvin Miller in his book claimed he wanted 6 years as free agency because it created a market big enough to draw interest but small enough to create scarcity those optimizing free agent prices

    Last thing Miller wanted was making everybody a free agent.  Which technically was the case once it was determined the reserve clause meant you could only renew for one year
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    Re: DEAL OF BAD DEALS

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:02 am

    Chi-kid wrote:Because of the scarcity of free agents, the Dunns, Cabreras, and LaRoches can get those kind of salaries. Then go right into the toilet as soon as the ink is dry on the contract.

    And this why I am opposed to a salary cap and at odds with Rosebowl.  Nobody is holding a gun to the head of the Hahn's and Reinsdorf's of the world. They don't HAVE to pay Dunn all that money. They ALL have the same stats available to you that you occasionally bury us with. If they are all so definitive and informative, seems like the powers that be don't believe them either, or choose not to.
    All of this money has destroyed the fucking game.  There are no Rod Carews, Wade Boggs, Paul Molitors, Pete Roses, Maury Wills, Rickey Hendersons.  You have a bunch of assholes swinging for the fences.  You have assholes striking out constantly.


    THE GAME SUCKS NOW.


    A CRASHING BORE.


    GORDON BECKHAM...EXHIBIT A.  A middle infielder who was not a contact hitter!!!

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