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    WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

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    WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Guest on Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:49 pm

    According to Baseball Refernence, the white sox top 12 in WAR (wins above replacement)

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2015.shtml

    Eaton 3.9
    Quintana 3.9
    Abreau 3.8
    Sale 3.3
    Rodon 1.6
    Thompson 1.5

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

    A MID AUGUST CALL UP THAT STARTED ABOUT 2/3 OF THE TIME IS #6?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??

    #12 IS JB SCHMUCK!!!!!!!  HE BEATS OUT AVI GARCIA AND THE LAROUCHE CLIP AND SAMARDABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP!!!!!!!


    I'M SURE HAWK AND KENNY ARE INSISTING TO JERRY THAT THIS IS ALL MATHEMATCIAL MOBO JUMBO

    TRUTH IS, WAR IS MORE RIGHT THAN WRONG!!!!!

    MEANING THE 2015 WHITE SOX WHERE SABOTAGED BY EX CUBS!!!!!!!!
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    rmapasad
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:15 pm

    tHe SicKo FANt wrote:According to Baseball Refernence, the white sox top 12 in WAR (wins above replacement)

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2015.shtml

    Eaton 3.9
    Quintana 3.9
    Abreau 3.8
    Sale 3.3
    Rodon 1.6
    Thompson 1.5

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

    A MID AUGUST CALL UP THAT STARTED ABOUT 2/3 OF THE TIME IS #6?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??

    #12 IS JB SCHMUCK!!!!!!!  HE BEATS OUT AVI GARCIA AND THE LAROUCHE CLIP AND SAMARDABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP!!!!!!! 
    I'M SURE HAWK AND KENNY ARE INSISTING TO JERRY THAT THIS IS ALL MATHEMATCIAL MOBO JUMBO 
    TRUTH IS, WAR IS MORE RIGHT THAN WRONG!!!!! 
    MEANING THE 2015 WHITE SOX WHERE SABOTAGED BY EX CUBS!!!!!!!!


    I think it is fair to say that Avisail Garcia was below replacement level and so it is no surprise that another scrub like Thompson, who had a 6 week hot hand, could top him in WAR.  If the Sox think Garcia is anything more than a 4th OFer or a non-tender candidate, they are engaging in self-delusion again (just like with Tank).

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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Guest on Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:53 am

    Which is why the KARK pursues both Heyward and cespednis this winter
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by jaywit on Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:23 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    tHe SicKo FANt wrote:According to Baseball Refernence, the white sox top 12 in WAR (wins above replacement)

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2015.shtml

    Eaton 3.9
    Quintana 3.9
    Abreau 3.8
    Sale 3.3
    Rodon 1.6
    Thompson 1.5

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

    A MID AUGUST CALL UP THAT STARTED ABOUT 2/3 OF THE TIME IS #6?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??

    #12 IS JB SCHMUCK!!!!!!!  HE BEATS OUT AVI GARCIA AND THE LAROUCHE CLIP AND SAMARDABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP!!!!!!! 
    I'M SURE HAWK AND KENNY ARE INSISTING TO JERRY THAT THIS IS ALL MATHEMATCIAL MOBO JUMBO 
    TRUTH IS, WAR IS MORE RIGHT THAN WRONG!!!!! 
    MEANING THE 2015 WHITE SOX WHERE SABOTAGED BY EX CUBS!!!!!!!!


    I think it is fair to say that Avisail Garcia was below replacement level and so it is no surprise that another scrub like Thompson, who had a 6 week hot hand, could top him in WAR.  If the Sox think Garcia is anything more than a 4th OFer or a non-tender candidate, they are engaging in self-delusion again (just like with Tank).

    The precedent is there, unfortunately.  They felt they had to replace Adam Dunn with another Adam Dunn.  They bring back Beckham.  Hoping that Garcia blossoms is in the Sox cards.  One thing is consistent with Sox management:  they don't learn from prior mistakes.
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by rmapasad on Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:40 pm

    I think it is fair to say that Avisail Garcia was below replacement level and so it is no surprise that another scrub like Thompson, who had a 6 week hot hand, could top him in WAR.  If the Sox think Garcia is anything more than a 4th OFer or a non-tender candidate, they are engaging in self-delusion again (just like with Tank). wrote:
    The precedent is there, unfortunately.  They felt they had to replace Adam Dunn with another Adam Dunn.  They bring back Beckham.  Hoping that Garcia blossoms is in the Sox cards.  One thing is consistent with Sox management:  they don't learn from prior mistakes.

    I see the Sox consistently relying on flimsy evidence to convince themselves that certain players are worth keeping in starting jobs.  Flowers, Tank, Beckham, Gillaspie, DeAza, Garcia, and Noesi in the last couple years and now
    Trayce Thompson could be the next one.  They all have shown some glimmers in a season or 1/2 season which may indicate hope despite checkered or subpar careers.  Or questionable skill sets.  Sox routinely cast aside the bigger bodies of evidence in favor of the few glimmers of hope.
    This same rose-colored glasses approach has also killed them in longer-term contracts.  They expected more than they should have out of Danks, Dunn, Peavy, and now LaRoche and Cabrera and paid them accordingly.
    And ended up being stuck with the big $$$ contracts.

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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Guest on Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:35 pm

    They expected more than they should have out of Danks, Dunn, Peavy, and now LaRoche and Cabrera and paid them accordingly.
    And ended up being stuck with the big $$$ contracts.

    *******************************************************

    Danks was stupid at the time (although someone here keeps playing devils advocate)  Danks coming off his worse year with a full year to go.  Sox panic because Buehrle walked and paid Danks as if 2011 never happened

    Dunn -  I chalk that up to shit happens.  Yeah I called it a Joey Belle move at the time.  But claiming your in touch with the white sox karma is not exactly scientific is it

    Peavy (and don't forget Rios) - NEVER EVER EVER PAY FULL PRICE FOR A GUY ON THE DL!!!!  Then to top it off, they rush him back for a meaningless September.  Then to top that off, nobody noticed (except for maybe Rob and Sharpy) he altered his delivery to protect his injured foot.  that alteration lead to the shoulder tear.

    LaRouche was a disaster that just about everybody here saw coming a mile away.  If the sox had any balls, they'd make him a reliever.  Larouche could be valuable with 125AB and 25IP.  Not $12mil valuable, but clearly better than useless

    Cabrera was another shit happens incident.  On the plus side, his presence lead to the release of Viciedo which is a good thing.
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by rmapasad on Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:30 pm

    tHe SicKo FANt wrote:Danks was stupid at the time (although someone here keeps playing devils advocate)  Danks coming off his worse year with a full year to go.  Sox panic because Buehrle walked and paid Danks as if 2011 never happened

    Dunn -  I chalk that up to shit happens.  Yeah I called it a Joey Belle move at the time.  But claiming your in touch with the white sox karma is not exactly scientific is it

    Peavy (and don't forget Rios) - NEVER EVER EVER PAY FULL PRICE FOR A GUY ON THE DL!!!!  Then to top it off, they rush him back for a meaningless September.  Then to top that off, nobody noticed (except for maybe Rob and Sharpy) he altered his delivery to protect his injured foot.  that alteration lead to the shoulder tear.

    LaRouche was a disaster that just about everybody here saw coming a mile away.  If the sox had any balls, they'd make him a reliever.  Larouche could be valuable with 125AB and 25IP.  Not $12mil valuable, but clearly better than useless

    Cabrera was another shit happens incident.  On the plus side, his presence lead to the release of Viciedo which is a good thing.

    Kark - always agreed that signing Danks after 2011 was a panic move.
    No need to lock him up with a year left before he's FA, and no real bargain in it since he's 5 years into his career and going to command near full retail price.  Only good time to lock up a pitcher longer-term is when he's early in his career and a lot more affordable (like Sox did with Sale and Quintana).  IF Sox waited till the end of 2012, Danks wouldn't have been signed to jack shit.

    As to Dunn, Sox were bucking some odds on the "tall slugger reaches early-mid 30's"..Think of how many guys 6"4" +  had good careers after that age - Richie Sexson, Frank Howard, Dave Kingman, Dale Murphy, Dick Stuart, Boog Powell, fell into big declines at ages 31-33. Makes some sense since these tall guys have a lot more strike zone to cover and if their bats slow down ever so slightly, pitchers exploit the spots they can't reach anymore.  Granted, Big Hurt and Jim Thome still had some good seasons after age 32, but they were Hall of Famer types.
     
    Dunn's a lumbering ox at 6'6", and he signed for 4 years at a hefty price at age 31 and expected to be a premier producer for the Sox. That was typical Sox over-optimism. At that age, Dunn was likely to be a league average DH at best and should have been signed as such.  That's maybe the kind of deal he would have gotten if Kenny hadn't been all over him like a cheap suit. It's not like Dunn's phone was ringing off the hook that offseason.

    As to LaRoche, signing a 35 year old to a two year deal is a bad risk unless the guy is an All Star.. Figure anytime after mid-30's a guy could lose 100 pts in OPS at the drop of a hat.  If he was a 900+ guy at his peak, he's still useful.  If his starting point was low 800's like LaRoche, he becomes dead weight real fast.

    RE: Cabrera, his best seasons were when he juiced, and before that he was basically a 650-720 OPS guy.  Sox paid full retail for Melky's 2014 which was his only good non-juicing season.  Yeah, they had some reason to believe he might hit near .300 again with 15-20 HR's but the risk that he could be .260-.270 with 10-12 HR's was also plain.  The fact that he's a lousy fielder was no secret though.

    In the end, the Sox are forced into these kind of free agent risks because they haven't developed enough talent internally to fill the gaps. So they end up being overly hopeful about "prospects" like Sanchez, Johnson, Thompson, Garcia, etc and FA signings like Dunn.

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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Guest on Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:16 pm

    In the end, the Sox are forced into these kind of free agent risks because they haven't developed enough talent internally to fill the gaps. So they end up being overly hopeful about "prospects" like Sanchez, Johnson, Thompson, Garcia, etc and FA signings like Dunn.

    ********************************************************************

    Its also their refusal to admit that every now and then you just have to say we have ZERO chance this year so lets regroup and reload and reassemble

    Instead, every year, its let's play for this year and we'll worry about next year, next year.

    That, and not lack of farm, explains Dunn

    Dunn was supposed to be what Joey Belle was suppose to be...

    **************************************

    What pisses me off about Dunn is the after the 2010 season, the White Sox had the golden opportunity to get 7 picks within the first 3 rounds (technically 1st 2 plus a sandwich).

    Instead, the White Sox decided to get Dunn and try to milk a last hurrah out of Konerko and AJ and Buehrle.
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:36 pm

    What pisses me off about Dunn is the after the 2010 season, the White Sox had the golden opportunity to get 7 picks within the first 3 rounds (technically 1st 2 plus a sandwich). Instead, the White Sox decided to get Dunn and try to milk a last hurrah out of Konerko and AJ and Buehrle.  >>
    The Sox gave up the 23rd and 34th overall picks that year, and the Nationals got basically zilch from those picks.  2011 was a thin draft even for teams who know how to draft hitters, which Sox clearly do not. They got Keenyn Walker as the 43rd pick, but got a much more useful Erik Johnson as the 80th pick.  Which is yet another piece of evidence that the Sox can draft pitchers but not hitters.
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:51 pm

    Instead, every year, its let's play for this year and we'll worry about next year, next year.  That, and not lack of farm, explains Dunn ...Dunn was supposed to be what Joey Belle was suppose to be...>
    No doubt that while the Cubs were sucking wind in the early Epstein years, that enabled them to get high 1st round picks which landed Kris Bryant and Kyle Schwarber.   Sox's win-now strategy has had them picking somewhere in the 20th - 25th spot in 1st round. Usually nearly all the gold has been mined in the top 15 spots.
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:02 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    I think it is fair to say that Avisail Garcia was below replacement level and so it is no surprise that another scrub like Thompson, who had a 6 week hot hand, could top him in WAR.  If the Sox think Garcia is anything more than a 4th OFer or a non-tender candidate, they are engaging in self-delusion again (just like with Tank). wrote:
    The precedent is there, unfortunately.  They felt they had to replace Adam Dunn with another Adam Dunn.  They bring back Beckham.  Hoping that Garcia blossoms is in the Sox cards.  One thing is consistent with Sox management:  they don't learn from prior mistakes.

    I see the Sox consistently relying on flimsy evidence to convince themselves that certain players are worth keeping in starting jobs.  Flowers, Tank, Beckham, Gillaspie, DeAza, Garcia, and Noesi in the last couple years and now
    Trayce Thompson could be the next one.  They all have shown some glimmers in a season or 1/2 season which may indicate hope despite checkered or subpar careers.  Or questionable skill sets.  Sox routinely cast aside the bigger bodies of evidence in favor of the few glimmers of hope.
    This same rose-colored glasses approach has also killed them in longer-term contracts.  They expected more than they should have out of Danks, Dunn, Peavy, and now LaRoche and Cabrera and paid them accordingly.
    And ended up being stuck with the big $$$ contracts.
    I swear FANBOYS are running the baseball operation.  These people are PAID SALARIES to make SMART decisions on talent.  Instead they get less than average players and sit like FANBOYS wishing and hoping they are better than they are.  THEY GO INTO DENIAL, LIKE FANBOYS.  A jackass like Kenny Williams makes some dumb shit speech every June or July and says something idiotic like THESE OTHER TEAMS ARE DONE HOLDING THE WHITE SOX DOWN.....Garbage some 6th grader in the schoolyard would say.....Offensive and Defensive statistics put the Sox AT THE BOTTOM in the 1st half, and GOOFS IN MANAGEMENT IGNORE IT, TALK TOUGH AND DO NOTHING!!!


    NEVER UNLOAD THE TRASH....KEEP IT AROUND AND PRETEND TO CONTEND LIKE FANBOYS WANT!!!


      It is no wonder the team sucks annually when the people in charge act like goofy fans.

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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Guest on Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:21 am

    If only Samardzija had his August in July....
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:29 am

    If only Gordon had been moved to LF to concentrate on POWER!!!

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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Guest on Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:08 am

    rmapasad wrote:What pisses me off about Dunn is the after the 2010 season, the White Sox had the golden opportunity to get 7 picks within the first 3 rounds (technically 1st 2 plus a sandwich). Instead, the White Sox decided to get Dunn and try to milk a last hurrah out of Konerko and AJ and Buehrle.  >>
    The Sox gave up the 23rd and 34th overall picks that year, and the Nationals got basically zilch from those picks.  2011 was a thin draft even for teams who know how to draft hitters, which Sox clearly do not. They got Keenyn Walker as the 43rd pick, but got a much more useful Erik Johnson as the 80th pick.  Which is yet another piece of evidence that the Sox can draft pitchers but not hitters.



    OK, MAYBE THE WHITE SOX GET 7 STIFFS FOR SEVEN PICKS

    BUT WHAT NUMBER PICKS DO THEY GET AS COMP FOR KONERKO AND AJ?   AND LET'S NOT FORGET JJ PUTZ


    AND EVEN IF THEY DO GET STIFFS, MAYBE THEY GET TRADED FOR SOMETHING USEFUL BEFORE THEIR STIFFNESS IS OBVIOUS

    AND REGARDLESS OF HOW STIFF OR NOT STIFF THOSE 7 PICKS WERE, YOU SAVE ABOUT $40MIL IN 2011 AND LORD KNOW HOW MUCH THERE AFTER.

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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:26 am

    rmapasad wrote:The Sox gave up the 23rd and 34th overall picks that year, and the Nationals got basically zilch from those picks.  2011 was a thin draft even for teams who know how to draft hitters, which Sox clearly do not. They got Keenyn Walker as the 43rd pick, but got a much more useful Erik Johnson as the 80th pick.  Which is yet another piece of evidence that the Sox can draft pitchers but not hitters.

    No one knows whom the Sox may have chosen with their lost picks.  Could the Nationals' picks run a decent down-and-out?  Or did they have any consistency from the 3-point zone?  If not, the Sox probably wouldn't have picked them.  The Sox may have picked stiffs like they usually do, but we'll never know for sure. alien
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    Re: WAR, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:05 pm

    Father of Stan wrote:In the end, the Sox are forced into these kind of free agent risks because they haven't developed enough talent internally to fill the gaps. So they end up being overly hopeful about "prospects" like Sanchez, Johnson, Thompson, Garcia, etc and FA signings like Dunn.

    ********************************************************************

    Its also their refusal to admit that every now and then you just have to say we have ZERO chance this year so lets regroup and reload and reassemble

    Instead, every year, its let's play for this year and we'll worry about next year, next year.

    That, and not lack of farm, explains Dunn

    Dunn was supposed to be what Joey Belle was suppose to be...

    **************************************

    What pisses me off about Dunn is the after the 2010 season, the White Sox had the golden opportunity to get 7 picks within the first 3 rounds (technically 1st 2 plus a sandwich).

    Instead, the White Sox decided to get Dunn and try to milk a last hurrah out of Konerko and AJ and Buehrle.
    WIN NOW!!!!  ROTFLMFAO!!!

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