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    Bullpen thoughts

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    Bullpen thoughts

    Post by Guest on Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:41 am

    Last Friday, a lot of 2nd guessing over the decision to remove Chris Sale after 8.  Didn't listen to the radio, but I can just hear people like Rongey and Bernstein apologizing for Ventura and claiming every manager does this and this is the role of the closer blah blah blah 

    Anyway, part of the discussion involves how Robertson didn't pitch in a week due to the losing streak... 

    So this leads to the obvious question of why?  And I'm sure all the talking heads that think they are some kind of expert because of the microphone will give the generic answer of ALL CLOSERS JOB IS TO PROTECT THE LEAD... 

    Which leads to the next question, which may not be so obvious.  DO TEAM REALLY ASSIGN BULLPEN ROLES ACCORDING TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE WINNING OR LOSING?!?!?!?!? 

    I'm sure some here will proclaim that not only is it an obvious yes, but an obvious that it should be this way. 

    Well I can understand the logic that one would prefer it this way, but I would think that an intelligent manager would treat such bullpen roles as suggestions, not absolutes. 

    For example, if your closer hasn't pitched in 3 days, then maybe have him enter game 4 in the 7th to protect a 1 or 2 run deficit instead of waiting God knows how long for a 9th inning save situation. 

    Maybe if managers tried managing instead of waiting rigidly defined situations to occur, then maybe you wouldn't need 8 man bullpens where all the relievers struggle to get 2 innings a week
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    Cream1953
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    Re: Bullpen thoughts

    Post by Cream1953 on Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:21 am

    For me it's not so much a question of stategies and percentages as it is a question of entitlement. I personally think that unless your starter is CLEARLY gassed, any pitcher who has pitched the kind of game Sale did the other day has earned the right to either win or lose the game. He got you there to begin with. Regardless the outcome, he's earned the right to close things out.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Bullpen thoughts

    Post by Soxillinirob on Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:33 am

    Cream1953 wrote:For me it's not so much a question of stategies and percentages as it is a question of entitlement. I personally think that unless your starter is CLEARLY gassed, any pitcher who has pitched the kind of game Sale did the other day has earned the right to either win or lose the game. He got you there to begin with. Regardless the outcome, he's earned the right to close things out.

    100% agree, and I'd think that with the reputation and history Sale has with this team, he would be allowed to finish the game if he wanted to pitch the ninth.  I almost wondered if he wanted out of the game.  Hard to imagine after striking out the side in the 8th.  One of the strangest Sox decisions of the past few years, IMO.

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    Re: Bullpen thoughts

    Post by Guest on Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:41 am

    Agree 100%.  NEVER PULL A PITCHER WITH A SHUT OUT!!!!!!

    As to the bigger question I posed, my answer is that its asinine to ONLY pitch your closer in a 9th inning save situation.

    I also think this notion of specific bullpen roles is a bit of putting the cart b4 the horse.  Your role is really a function of how good you are.  Meaning your best reliever is your closer, your second best is your setup men...

    So if the game is on the line in the 7th, how many managers are bringing in there 3rd best reliever to pitch out of a jam?!?!?!??  If its the KARK, I'm thinking maybe I should bring in my #1 reliever to close out the 7th then pitch the entire 8th.  Then if I can add an insurance run or 3, then maybe my #2 or #3 or maybe even #4 reliever can start fresh in the 9th.

    This notion that the last 3 outs are the hardest to get, and this notion that a hold is a silly stat is BS to me.  A hold is just as important as a save, and in many cases, probably more important.

    WHY PISS AWAY GAMES IN THE 7TH AND 8TH WHILE YOUR BEST RELIEVER IS SITTING WITH HIS THUMB UP HIS REAR WAITING FOR THAT PRECIOUS SAVE?!?!?!?!?
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    Cream1953
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    Re: Bullpen thoughts

    Post by Cream1953 on Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:52 pm

    NEVER PULL A PITCHER WITH A SHUT OUT!!!!!!

    ******************************************************************

    "Stupid baseball logic" is all about fixing something that isn't broken.

    I also agree with your broader point. I've always hated this "specialist" designation for a pitcher. If have to reach into your bullpen then bring in the guy that's best suited for whatever the situation dictates...even if it means bringing in your "closer" to pitch the 7th or 8th or whatever. In my opinion, every fucking guy in the bullpen should be able to close out and save a game or give you 2-3 innings as called for.  

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    Re: Bullpen thoughts

    Post by Guest on Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:58 pm

    Terry Francona used his reliever, Cory Allen, in the 5th inning last week

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