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    Gordon?

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    Soxillinirob
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    Gordon?

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:19 pm

    My sports ticker just notified me that it's becoming apparent that the White Sox are emerging as the likeliest destination for Beckham.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by alohafri on Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:45 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:My sports ticker just notified me that it's becoming apparent that the White Sox are emerging as the likeliest destination for Beckham.

    Yep...

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-gordon-beckham-white-sox-20150128-story.html

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    alohafri
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by alohafri on Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:49 pm

    I gotta blame Cream for this.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:57 pm

    Holy shit.  Gordon is back and Tank is DFA.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by alohafri on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:03 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:Holy shit.  Gordon is back and Tank is DFA.

    Rosebowl must be on an emotional roller coaster!
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    Cream1953
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:25 pm

    What the hell did I do???

    First Kark thinks I'm supporting him because he's a pervert and now I'm responsible For Beckham
    returning to the White Sox.

    Well....ok....Sully begged and begged and begged. I told her I'd talk to Hahn for certain...ummm..."favors".

    Seriously? Beckham back and Tank gone? I can live with that.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by alohafri on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:30 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:
    Well....ok....Sully begged and begged and begged. I told her I'd talk to Hahn for certain...ummm..."favors".



    Your honor, the prosecution rests.
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    Cream1953
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:34 pm

    So lock me up. Part of our "agreement" is that if I get put away she gives me conjugal visits.

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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Guest on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:35 pm

    Half a great move

    The KARK cuts Andy Wilkins over the Tank
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    alohafri
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by alohafri on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:40 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:So lock me up. Part of our "agreement" is that if I get put away she gives me conjugal visits.

    Oh no. For bringing Gordon back, you get sent to federal "pound me in the ass" prison.

    MGJOHNSON
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:56 pm

    At least John's Beckham jerseys get new life. Cool

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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:56 pm

    At least John's Beckham jerseys get new life. Cool
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    Cream1953
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:57 pm

    I hope they change his jersey number. Twisted Evil
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    sox55
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by sox55 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:54 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:Holy shit.  Gordon is back and Tank is DFA.

    Rosebowl must be on an emotional roller coaster!
    "Adding Gordon improves the depth and flexibility of our roster," said Rick Hahn, White Sox senior vice president/general manager. "We are thrilled to have him back. Like Emilio Bonifacio, Gordon brings the ability to play solid defense at multiple positions or play on an everyday basis should we elect to go that route. This also gives Robin the ability to play matchups more effectively when setting the lineup."


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    rmapasad
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by rmapasad on Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:53 pm

    sox55 wrote:
    "Adding Gordon improves the depth and flexibility of our roster," said Rick Hahn, White Sox senior vice president/general manager. "We are thrilled to have him back. Like Emilio Bonifacio, Gordon brings the ability to play solid defense at multiple positions or play on an everyday basis should we elect to go that route. This also gives Robin the ability to play matchups more effectively when setting the lineup."
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    Not exactly a thrilling idea to see Gordo getting 450-500 AB's this season but given how Ventura seemed to favor him, that is a very distinct possibility.

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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Guest on Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:09 pm

    Bleh!....not investing another brain cell in thinking about this utility .230 hitting infielder.  If he gets 350 at bats and his OPS is >.800, let me know so I can start being interested again.

    Not sure tendering Viciedo, having to pay him, and then cutting him loose, is a great business decision by our financial genius. Seems like a money flush.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:24 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:Bleh!....not investing another brain cell in thinking about this utility .230 hitting infielder.  If he gets 350 at bats and his OPS is >.800, let me know so I can start being interested again.

    Not sure tendering Viciedo, having to pay him, and then cutting him loose, is a great business decision by our financial genius. Seems like a money flush.

    I believe I recall reading that the Sox had an out from paying Tank if they ditched him quickly enough.  Thinking maybe they accomplished just that.  There was definitely some kind of arrangement made that would allow them an out.  I'm sure they're going to try trading him for something and if they can't, then they'll exercise the out...assuming there is one.  Maybe Roger knows.

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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Guest on Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:36 pm

    Maybe Roger knows.

    You need to stop trying to convince a brickhead of facts and start paying attention to the Sox ...
    Sox signed Viciedo to a 1 year/$4.4M about 2 weeks ago. Now unless they changed the rules, a contract is a contract and if the sox release him, they owe him the money. Nobody is going to trade for Viciedo b/c the minute they let him go, and he becomes free, anyone can sign him for the minimum salary, with the Sox having to pay up the remaining amount to get to $4.4 million. If they have an 'out" in this contract, I am sure the players' association doesn't know about it.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:40 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:Maybe Roger knows.

    You need to stop trying to convince a brickhead of facts and start paying attention to the Sox ...
    Sox signed Viciedo to a 1 year/$4.4M about 2 weeks ago. Now unless they changed the rules, a contract is a contract and if the sox release him, they owe him the money. Nobody is going to trade for Viciedo b/c the minute they let him go, and he becomes free, anyone can sign him for the minimum salary, with the Sox having to pay up the remaining amount to get to $4.4 million. If they have an 'out" in this contract, I am sure the players' association doesn't know about it.

    Ordinarily, I would fully concur.  In this one instance, however, I remember that there were articles in the days after the signing that were laying out a few rare and unlikely ways that the Sox would be able to escape paying him.  I didn't read them, but got the feeling that they could somehow still sort of non-tender him if they were to meet certain requirements.  I recall seeing some comments about it and the comments noting that he'd have to be released almost immediately.  Then again, maybe I'm confusing this with another player...or Cutler.  Perhaps it was only a dream.
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:45 pm

    Found this in a Trib article.

    Viciedo, 25, hit .231 with 21 home runs and 58 RBIs in 145 games last season and has a career average of .254. He signed a $4.4 million contract to avoid arbitration this month, and if the Sox don’t find a trade partner in the next 10 days would have to pay him a little more than $700,000 upon his release.

    I knew there was some kind of out clause.
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    Nomads44
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Nomads44 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:50 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    sox55 wrote:
    "Adding Gordon improves the depth and flexibility of our roster," said Rick Hahn, White Sox senior vice president/general manager. "We are thrilled to have him back. Like Emilio Bonifacio, Gordon brings the ability to play solid defense at multiple positions or play on an everyday basis should we elect to go that route. This also gives Robin the ability to play matchups more effectively when setting the lineup."
    Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  
    Not exactly a thrilling idea to see Gordo getting 450-500 AB's this season but given how Ventura seemed to favor him, that is a very distinct possibility.
    I am not disappointed to have him back.  I HOPE he becomes the utility guy as it means all our young infielders are doing well.  But if he has to return to 2B because kids are not ready, he is a cheap good defensive infielder.  I am more amazed that he can command as much as Ichiro did.  Suzuki has defense and arm, too, and probably hits twice as good as Beckham.  Did not check the WAR, but I would think Ichiro has far more in an average season.  Marlins got a bargain IMHO.
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Nomads44 on Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:04 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:Found this in a Trib article.

    Viciedo, 25, hit .231 with 21 home runs and 58 RBIs in 145 games last season and has a career average of .254. He signed a $4.4 million contract to avoid arbitration this month, and if the Sox don’t find a trade partner in the next 10 days would have to pay him a little more than $700,000 upon his release.

    I knew there was some kind of out clause.

    That's quite a deal.  I'd agree with Sharpy than I cannot believe the union permitted this.  Was the author of the article someone you believe is pretty much always credible?
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:24 am

    Nomads44 wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:Found this in a Trib article.

    Viciedo, 25, hit .231 with 21 home runs and 58 RBIs in 145 games last season and has a career average of .254. He signed a $4.4 million contract to avoid arbitration this month, and if the Sox don’t find a trade partner in the next 10 days would have to pay him a little more than $700,000 upon his release.

    I knew there was some kind of out clause.

    That's quite a deal.  I'd agree with Sharpy than I cannot believe the union permitted this.  Was the author of the article someone you believe is pretty much always credible?

    First of all, I think the Sox had to make the decision as to whether to tender or non-tender Viciedo back in December before they knew whether they had Melky locked up.  Clearly Melky makes Tank expendable, although Tank's last two years is what should have made him expendable.
    As to the out clause, it appears the Sox can cut Viciedo and only pay him $ 772,000. From MLB Trade Rumors:
    The White Sox and Viciedo had already agreed to a one-year, $4.4MM contract to avoid arbitration, however that salary is not fully guaranteed. This situation is the same in which www.mlbtraderumors.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Emilio Bonifacio found himself with the Royals last winter, when he was designated after agreeing to a salary. (Coincidentally, Bonifacio had a solid season and signed a $4MM contract to join the White Sox this offseason.) The White Sox are able to cut Viciedo for roughly one sixth of his agreed upon salary at this point, meaning they’ll be on the hook for roughly $733K of that $4.4MM sum, should he ultimately be released. Of course, a team could claim the entirety of Viciedo’s $4.4MM salary on waivers (which seems unlikely) or trade for him, with Chicago kicking in some cash as well.
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:07 am

    Nomads44 wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    sox55 wrote:
    "Adding Gordon improves the depth and flexibility of our roster," said Rick Hahn, White Sox senior vice president/general manager. "We are thrilled to have him back. Like Emilio Bonifacio, Gordon brings the ability to play solid defense at multiple positions or play on an everyday basis should we elect to go that route. This also gives Robin the ability to play matchups more effectively when setting the lineup."
    Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  
    Not exactly a thrilling idea to see Gordo getting 450-500 AB's this season but given how Ventura seemed to favor him, that is a very distinct possibility.
    I am not disappointed to have him back.  I HOPE he becomes the utility guy as it means all our young infielders are doing well.  But if he has to return to 2B because kids are not ready, he is a cheap good defensive infielder.  I am more amazed that he can command as much as Ichiro did.  Suzuki has defense and arm, too, and probably hits twice as good as Beckham.  Did not check the WAR, but I would think Ichiro has far more in an average season.  Marlins got a bargain IMHO.

    If anyone other than Ventura were managing this situation, I'd tend to agree, Jim.   But the pattern shown last year is that Robin defaulted to Beckham, particularly batting him second in the order when the guy was a clear offensive sinkhole.  If the plan is to use Beckham only against LHed pitchers, not such a good idea to platoon him at 2b particularly when you consider that Beckham's career OPS v. LHers is only 687 v. Bonafacio's career 720.  Not a bad idea as to 3b,though, as Gillaspie really stinks v. LHers.
    The other thing is this belief that Beckham's defense is superlative and even though his hitting sucks, he should be the starter because of his glove.  As to 2b, the defensive stats say Beckham is somewhere between avg. to slightly above avg. He ain't no Pedroia, who IS  a top notch glove at 2b.   Bonafacio is basically average at 2b with the glove.  But this perception that Beckham is somehow there in the Pedroia category may be enough to get him the starting job back at 2b particularly if Bonafacio is off to a rough start. 
    If the role Beckham plays is strictly part-time fill in at 2b and maybe platoon partner at 3b, fine.   But his track record as a starter and rep as some sort of defensive wizard may end up getting him 450-500 ab's again.  NOTE to KEVIN: when I "defended" Ventura it was primarily that he didn't have much choice last year given the roster he had.  This year is a different story particularly with Beckham aboard now.  I am suspicious of Robin's ability to make the right choices when he has these kind of decisions to make.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Gordon?

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:54 am

    rmapasad wrote:As to the out clause, it appears the Sox can cut Viciedo and only pay him $ 772,000. From MLB Trade Rumors:
    The White Sox and Viciedo had already agreed to a one-year, $4.4MM contract to avoid arbitration, however that salary is not fully guaranteed. This situation is the same in which www.mlbtraderumors.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Emilio Bonifacio found himself with the Royals last winter, when he was designated after agreeing to a salary. (Coincidentally, Bonifacio had a solid season and signed a $4MM contract to join the White Sox this offseason.) The White Sox are able to cut Viciedo for roughly one sixth of his agreed upon salary at this point, meaning they’ll be on the hook for roughly $733K of that $4.4MM sum, should he ultimately be released. Of course, a team could claim the entirety of Viciedo’s $4.4MM salary on waivers (which seems unlikely) or trade for him, with Chicago kicking in some cash as well.

    I'd be interested in understanding what kind of weird rule that teams are using to do this.  Seems like there are guidelines tied to re-signing guys that you are considering non-tendering whereby you can non roster them early enough to avoid paying them in full?  Sounds like an NFL rule if I don't mind saying so.

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