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    Melky Cabrera

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    sox55
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    Melky Cabrera

    Post by sox55 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:09 pm

    An alternative to Nick Markakis?


    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24822971/white-sox-among-teams-with-interest-in-outfielder-melky-cabrera

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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Guest on Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:15 pm

    Another cheater - come on John, who wants him?
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by sox55 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:47 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:Another cheater - come on John, who wants him?
    Stats are pretty good after doing his time.



    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cabreme01-bat.shtml
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:29 pm

    CHEATERS????


    Who in the Fuck cares???


    This is a morality play?


    You have a franchise NOBODY GIVES A FUCK ABOUT here.


    Did people care when they packed stadiums to see the Stones that Keith Richards was a junkie???


    The White Sox could use all kinds of cheaters to sell a fucking ticket!!!!


    BAD BAD CHEATERS!!!!


    WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!!!


    MLB AS MORALITY!!!!

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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Guest on Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:12 pm

    His stats weren't that great when he was on roids and they're only marginally better than what the sox have when he's off roids. I don't give a shit if he does roids or not but the fact is if he's on them and gets caught, then he sits on his ass for 100 games in the Caribbean instead of helping the sox.  And if he's not on roids, he's crap and old so who wants him?  Why pay an old player whose best years were when he was shooting up? He'll either suck or be sitting after getting caught. Most of us view these post and consider how the players going to affect the game on the field Bob. You seem to be the only one who wants to talk about morality, and fanboys, and attendance, and the Cubs. 
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:31 pm

    sox55 wrote:An alternative to Nick Markakis?


    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24822971/white-sox-among-teams-with-interest-in-outfielder-melky-cabrera

    Quite honestly, John, wouldn't consider either one of these guys great pickups in light of the price tags they'll probably command.  Markakis' power is too light for a corner OFer (he's only averaged 13 HR's the last five yrs) and now that he's not hitting .290-.300 anymore, he doesn't offer a great deal of offensive value.  Plus his defense is below par.  Ditto on negative defensive value for Cabrera and he also doesn't generate a lot of power.  
    Granted, either of these guys would be a big improvement over Viciedo but they'r both 30+ yr olds who will be shooting for multi-yr deals at $ 13 mil + per year.  If replacing Viciedo were enough to put the Sox over the contention hump, it might be worth spending the extra $$ for one of them, but scavenging around Hahn might be able to find comparable overall value at 1/2 the price...
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by sox55 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:49 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    sox55 wrote:An alternative to Nick Markakis?


    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24822971/white-sox-among-teams-with-interest-in-outfielder-melky-cabrera

    Quite honestly, John, wouldn't consider either one of these guys great pickups in light of the price tags they'll probably command.  Markakis' power is too light for a corner OFer (he's only averaged 13 HR's the last five yrs) and now that he's not hitting .290-.300 anymore, he doesn't offer a great deal of offensive value.  Plus his defense is below par.  Ditto on negative defensive value for Cabrera and he also doesn't generate a lot of power.  
    Granted, either of these guys would be a big improvement over Viciedo but they'r both 30+ yr olds who will be shooting for multi-yr deals at $ 13 mil + per year.  If replacing Viciedo were enough to put the Sox over the contention hump, it might be worth spending the extra $$ for one of them, but scavenging around Hahn might be able to find comparable overall value at 1/2 the price...



    BELOW PAR?........What games do you watch other than your beloved Dodgers?.....Markakis just won The Gold Glove!!
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:43 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:His stats weren't that great when he was on roids and they're only marginally better than what the sox have when he's off roids. I don't give a shit if he does roids or not but the fact is if he's on them and gets caught, then he sits on his ass for 100 games in the Caribbean instead of helping the sox.  And if he's not on roids, he's crap and old so who wants him?  Why pay an old player whose best years were when he was shooting up? He'll either suck or be sitting after getting caught. Most of us view these post and consider how the players going to affect the game on the field Bob. You seem to be the only one who wants to talk about morality, and fanboys, and attendance, and the Cubs. 

    Basically agree.. If you take out his 2011-2012 seasons (where he clearly was on roids), he's basically a .270-.275, 12-13 HRs with subpar defense.  That's about 1/2 to 1 win above replacement.  I wouldn't consider that "crap" or just marginally better than what the Sox had..Real crap is Viciedo who clocked in at  1.4 Wins BELOW replacement.

    Problem with Cabrera is that his 2014 stats (.300 BA and 16 HR's) will get him a multi year deal that he won't be worth.  He's on the wrong side of 30, likely to sink back to his ..270 days and his defense and baserunning will only get worse. Plus he'll cost a first or 2nd round draft pick to sign. 
    Some contender might do it if they need to replace a sinkhole (like Viciedo) where the extra 2-3 wins could make a real difference and they are willing to take the financial risks of having a grossly overpaid player on their hands by 2016 or 2017.   Not the right risk for the Sox to be taking though.
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:46 pm

    The White Sox are in a COMA.  Hahn does not have time to SCAVENGE around for BARGAINS.  I don't give a damn if they give Cabrera $20 million per season as long as it is only a 2 year deal. Fuck Reinsdorf's money.  The length of these contracts destroys the game. 
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:48 pm

    I would NOT give up the first round pick to sign this guy.  Markakis does not cost a draft pick.
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:55 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:His stats weren't that great when he was on roids and they're only marginally better than what the sox have when he's off roids. I don't give a shit if he does roids or not but the fact is if he's on them and gets caught, then he sits on his ass for 100 games in the Caribbean instead of helping the sox.  And if he's not on roids, he's crap and old so who wants him?  Why pay an old player whose best years were when he was shooting up? He'll either suck or be sitting after getting caught. Most of us view these post and consider how the players going to affect the game on the field Bob. You seem to be the only one who wants to talk about morality, and fanboys, and attendance, and the Cubs. 
    The White Sox on the field pretty much SUCK.  They would need to add the 12 APOSTLES to Abreu, Garcia, Eaton, Sale and Quintana this Winter for real improvement.  I guess you have a reading comprehension problem along with me.  You are here worried about Roid Cheaters and Marty must have had a 12 martini lunch calling Jared Mitchell a potential Cub when it was the idiot White Sox and their brilliant GM, Kenny Williams, who drafted this absolute bust in the first place when Mike Trout was on the board.
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:59 pm

    Sharpy, you act like the Sox are awash in stashed away money.  Attendence and TV ratings are directly tied to REVENUES.  Since the Sox suck at ATTENDANCE and TV Ratings, I guess they PRINT all that money they have stashed, right???


    KEEP PRETENDING along with the TRUE FANBOYS!!!!


    The great revival of the Sox interest wise is right around the corner!!!


    ROTFLMFAO!!!!


    Last edited by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by sox55 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:59 pm

    Hawk Harrelson wrote:I would NOT give up the first round pick to sign this guy.  Markakis does not cost a draft pick.



    Correct me if i am wrong, but I don't think the White Sox lose a draft pick because of where they finished last year.
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:19 pm

    sox55 wrote:
    BELOW PAR?........What games do you watch other than your beloved Dodgers?.....Markakis just won The Gold Glove!!

    Gold Gloves are beauty contests.  Derek Jeter, who was consistently one of the worst defensive SS's in baseball won several of them.   Palmeiro won one for 1b in a season where he only played 30 games in the field. 
    One thing that Gold Glove voters really goof big-time on is how many plays a guy should have made but didn't. They look at the superficial things like steadiness (lack of errors), the kind of effort he seems to exert, and how good his arm is.   Those factors favor a guy like Markakis who has a good arm and doesn't make errors.  He made 0 errors in 2014 and nailed 11 baserunners - it was one of his best ever in those areas.

    Problem with Markakis is that doesn't get to enough flyballs and that shows up big-time in two different measuring systems. Observers chart how many balls a guy gets to in his zone and how many he doesn't.  Although Markakis was better at that in 2014, from 2009-2013, he was consistently 10-15 runs worse than an average OFer at chasing down flyballs.  That's not good at all - in fact it's close to terrible.

    One other thing - in 2014 his RF competition for the GG in the AL was negligible.   Noiri Aoki and Cole Calhoun were better but they are relative unknowns (kiss of death when it comes to Gold Glove voting).  The rest of the field was atrocious  - Bautista, Rios, broken down Tori Hunter.  I see why Markakis won it, and it's not because he was good.
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:28 pm

    sox55 wrote:
    Hawk Harrelson wrote:I would NOT give up the first round pick to sign this guy.  Markakis does not cost a draft pick.



    Correct me if i am wrong, but I don't think the White Sox lose a draft pick because of where they finished last year.

    They would lose not a first rounder but a second round draft pick.
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:32 pm

    If Kenny was GM, I would say LOSE the 1st Round pick.  It would be another FOOTBALL PLAYER or ATHLETE!!!
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by sox55 on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:38 pm

    rmapasad wrote:
    sox55 wrote:
    BELOW PAR?........What games do you watch other than your beloved Dodgers?.....Markakis just won The Gold Glove!!

    Gold Gloves are beauty contests.  Derek Jeter, who was consistently one of the worst defensive SS's in baseball won several of them.   Palmeiro won one for 1b in a season where he only played 30 games in the field. 
    One thing that Gold Glove voters really goof big-time on is how many plays a guy should have made but didn't. They look at the superficial things like steadiness (lack of errors), the kind of effort he seems to exert, and how good his arm is.   Those factors favor a guy like Markakis who has a good arm and doesn't make errors.  He made 0 errors in 2014 and nailed 11 baserunners - it was one of his best ever in those areas.

    Problem with Markakis is that doesn't get to enough flyballs and that shows up big-time in two different measuring systems. Observers chart how many balls a guy gets to in his zone and how many he doesn't.  Although Markakis was better at that in 2014, from 2009-2013, he was consistently 10-15 runs worse than an average OFer at chasing down flyballs.  That's not good at all - in fact it's close to terrible.

    One other thing - in 2014 his RF competition for the GG in the AL was negligible.   Noiri Aoki and Cole Calhoun were better but they are relative unknowns (kiss of death when it comes to Gold Glove voting).  The rest of the field was atrocious  - Bautista, Rios, broken down Tori Hunter.  I see why Markakis won it, and it's not because he was good.



    Give me a fucking BREAK about Markakis and BTW, I guess Jeter just SUCKED for the past 20 yrs too! 


    I've got to stop watching this game because today's statheads have the game all figured out.
    Play it on a fucking computer and forget the reality of the game!

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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:57 pm

    Hawk Harrelson wrote:
    Chi-kid wrote:His stats weren't that great when he was on roids and they're only marginally better than what the sox have when he's off roids. I don't give a shit if he does roids or not but the fact is if he's on them and gets caught, then he sits on his ass for 100 games in the Caribbean instead of helping the sox.  And if he's not on roids, he's crap and old so who wants him?  Why pay an old player whose best years were when he was shooting up? He'll either suck or be sitting after getting caught. Most of us view these post and consider how the players going to affect the game on the field Bob. You seem to be the only one who wants to talk about morality, and fanboys, and attendance, and the Cubs. 
    The White Sox on the field pretty much SUCK.  They would need to add the 12 APOSTLES to Abreu, Garcia, Eaton, Sale and Quintana this Winter for real improvement.  I guess you have a reading comprehension problem along with me.  You are here worried about Roid Cheaters and Marty must have had a 12 martini lunch calling Jared Mitchell a potential Cub when it was the idiot White Sox and their brilliant GM, Kenny Williams, who drafted this absolute bust in the first place when Mike Trout was on the board.

    Yeah, Bobby, but at least I'll be sober in the morning, but you'll still be bitching your head off. tongue
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by rmapasad on Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:15 am

    sox55 wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:
    sox55 wrote:
    BELOW PAR?........What games do you watch other than your beloved Dodgers?.....Markakis just won The Gold Glove!!

    Gold Gloves are beauty contests.  Derek Jeter, who was consistently one of the worst defensive SS's in baseball won several of them.   Palmeiro won one for 1b in a season where he only played 30 games in the field. 
    One thing that Gold Glove voters really goof big-time on is how many plays a guy should have made but didn't. They look at the superficial things like steadiness (lack of errors), the kind of effort he seems to exert, and how good his arm is.   Those factors favor a guy like Markakis who has a good arm and doesn't make errors.  He made 0 errors in 2014 and nailed 11 baserunners - it was one of his best ever in those areas.

    Problem with Markakis is that doesn't get to enough flyballs and that shows up big-time in two different measuring systems. Observers chart how many balls a guy gets to in his zone and how many he doesn't.  Although Markakis was better at that in 2014, from 2009-2013, he was consistently 10-15 runs worse than an average OFer at chasing down flyballs.  That's not good at all - in fact it's close to terrible.

    One other thing - in 2014 his RF competition for the GG in the AL was negligible.   Noiri Aoki and Cole Calhoun were better but they are relative unknowns (kiss of death when it comes to Gold Glove voting).  The rest of the field was atrocious  - Bautista, Rios, broken down Tori Hunter.  I see why Markakis won it, and it's not because he was good.



    Give me a fucking BREAK about Markakis and BTW, I guess Jeter just SUCKED for the past 20 yrs too! 


    I've got to stop watching this game because today's statheads have the game all figured out.
    Play it on a fucking computer and forget the reality of the game!


    Whether you like it or not, John, the guys who are increasingly taking over front offices are giving these defensive metrics some credence.   There's good reason for it.   When guys run a 100 yard dash, how do you judge the winner - by judging who "looked like" the best runner or by clocking who actually got to the wire first ?  Gold Gloves are the "looks like" stuff... With the UZR system (Ultimate Zone Rating), they run a videotape of plays in the field, a charter puts a stopwatch on an OFer getting to a flyball.  He measures distance a guy has to run, trajectory of the ball, etc, and then determines how fast he was able to get to it.  Same with groundballs to the IF.     This is not fundamentally different than using radar guns to clock a pitcher's MPH or stopwatches to measure how fast a guy goes from 1st to home.  Clubs are investing millions in these guys so why aren't they entitled to the best information that technology can provide rather than scouting  Kenny Williams was a big believer in the "looks like" stuff - see where it's gotten the Sox.
    Not saying these systems are perfect - they don't consider how an OFer plays bounces off the wall, how he backs up errant throws from the IF,  whether he hits the cutoff man, etc. etc.  Maybe Markakis is good at these little things just as Jeter was.   Jeter's problem was that charters found him poor at covering ground to his left which is why he was making those jump throws. That made him look like a better fielder than he was because he exerted himself more than other SS's on semi-routine plays.   Not that Jeter was a bad fielder - all SS's have to be decent fielders or they won't last.  Just compared to other SS's, Jeter was below par at getting to balls to his left.    Markakis has been found over a period of 6 years to be inferior at getting to flyballs.  He undoubtedly is a smart, heads-up guy who compensates for that in other ways.  So I would concede that he might be a better fielder than UZR says he is.  Still, I doubt that astute GM's are going to ignore the UZR red flags when it comes to his catching enough flyballs.
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:00 am

    Gordon Beckham LOOKS like a BALLPLAYER!!!

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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Guest on Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:24 pm

    Jeter's problem was that charters found him poor at covering ground to his left which is why he was making those jump throws. That made him look like a better fielder than he was because he exerted himself more than other SS's on semi-routine plays.   Not that Jeter was a bad fielder - all SS's have to be decent fielders or they won't last.  Just compared to other SS's, Jeter was below par at getting to balls to his left

    Jump throws are on balls hit in the hole ..i.e to his right ..so was he bad going to his right, or to his left?  Or both and he only fielded balls right at him?
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by jaywit on Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:47 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:Jeter's problem was that charters found him poor at covering ground to his left which is why he was making those jump throws. That made him look like a better fielder than he was because he exerted himself more than other SS's on semi-routine plays.   Not that Jeter was a bad fielder - all SS's have to be decent fielders or they won't last.  Just compared to other SS's, Jeter was below par at getting to balls to his left

    Jump throws are on balls hit in the hole ..i.e to his right ..so was he bad going to his right, or to his left?  Or both and he only fielded balls right at him?

    I get what Roger is saying.  When I used to play 3rd base and before the cold reality of sucktitude set in, I found I had a much easier time covering to my right, being able to dive for balls to my right way, way quicker and more effectively than to my left.  Thus, I'd play off the line more than most, sometimes to the chagrin of the SS, trying to keep any grounders my way to my right or straight at me. 

    Two feet to my left were the shortstop's responsibility.
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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:49 am

    Sign Melky.  Dump Tank.  3 years.

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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Guest on Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:03 am

    What was it Veeck said about the high price of mediocrity?!?!?!?!?!?

    Rosebowl is right. The Sox are now the Cubs but without the tourist attraction.

    Nothing more exciting than watch a $100mil team chase the covted 500 mark. This new batch of overpaid mediocrities will be different that the last batch

    Pass me the LaRoach Clip. I need a deep inhale

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    Re: Melky Cabrera

    Post by Guest on Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:46 am

    This new batch of overpaid mediocrities will be different that the last batch

    And the outcome will be the same

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    Re: Melky Cabrera

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