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    Duke of hazzard

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    MGJOHNSON
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    Duke of hazzard

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:25 pm

    From Rotoworld.com:

    "Dan Hayes of CSNChicago.com reports that the White Sox will announce the signing of Zach Duke on Tuesday. FOX Sports' Jon Morosi says it's a multi-year contract. Duke found his niche as a left-hander specialist in 2014 with the Brewers, posting a 2.45 ERA and 74/17 K/BB ratio over 58 2/3 innings. He held left-handed batters to a .198/.267/.302 line. Duke should help a White Sox bullpen that's in need of a makeover."

    If the report is correct, I hope that the Sox didn't pay him too much.  Zach Duke had a very good year last season, but his career stats seem rather "iffy".  Hopefully, he'll turn out better than Scott Downs.  He usually has had decent control over his career.
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    Hawk Harrelson
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:27 pm

    John can drive him down to the games from Wisconsin.  Does not need to move.
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Soxillinirob on Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:35 pm

    That's a lot of innings logged for a lefty specialist.  Seems like a nice pickup if it's not to money-heavy.

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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Guest on Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:00 pm

    Is this the old Pirates pitcher who was a starter for them??....proving Cream's point Laughing

    MGJOHNSON
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:08 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:Is this the old Pirates pitcher who was a starter for them??....proving Cream's point Laughing

    Yep, that's him.  At one time, he was really thought to be hot stuff but hasn't lived up to all the hype.  That's why if the Sox trade Ramirez, they should get 2 top prospects because one of them is liable to fall on his face while the other one may take years to fully develop.

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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:14 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:That's a lot of innings logged for a lefty specialist.  Seems like a nice pickup if it's not to money-heavy.

    3 years, $15 million total...  That's enough to keep him around if he stinks up the place.
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    sox55
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by sox55 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:57 pm

    Hawk Harrelson wrote:John can drive him down to the games from Wisconsin.  Does not need to move.

    Too rich for the Brew Crew's blood, eh?.......I watched him this past season, he pitched great until August, got hit a bit from that point on.


    NOT The Duke of Hazzard, but The Duke of Earl!
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    sox55
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by sox55 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:00 pm

    The White Sox have agreed to terms with left-handed reliever Zach Duke
    Duke went 5-1 with a 2.45 ERA, 12 holds and 74 strikeouts over a career-high 74 appearances last season with Milwaukee, limiting opponents to a .223 (49-220) average, including a .198 (19-96) mark with 37 strikeouts vs. left-handers. Duke also made 14 consecutive scoreless appearances from April 12-May 10 and 16 in a row from June 22-July 30.

    “Very early on, we identified Zach as one of the best left-handed free agents available this offseason,” said Rick Hahn, White Sox senior vice president/general manager. “He addresses an important need in our bullpen by giving Robin Ventura a veteran left-handed option late in games.

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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Guest on Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:03 pm

    “He addresses an important need in our bullpen by giving Robin Ventura a veteran left-handed option late in games."



    Yea...yet another guy to bring in to face one batter ...
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    Cream1953
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Cream1953 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:13 pm

    When it comes to ANYTHING I wish I could be meh-to-mediocre for 5 million a year. Crying or Very sad
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    Hawk Harrelson
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:19 pm

    Has Williams now announced that the Sox have no more money to spend???


    That was precious.
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    Hawk Harrelson
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:20 pm

    MGJOHNSON wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:That's a lot of innings logged for a lefty specialist.  Seems like a nice pickup if it's not to money-heavy.

    3 years, $15 million total...  That's enough to keep him around if he stinks up the place.
    Dunn was kept around at 15 million per season to stink up the place.
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    alohafri
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by alohafri on Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:07 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:“He addresses an important need in our bullpen by giving Robin Ventura a veteran left-handed option late in games."



    Yea...yet another guy to bring in to face one batter ...

    cheers cheers cheers
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    rmapasad
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by rmapasad on Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:00 pm

    Do the Sox need to shore up the bullpen ?  Yes.  Is this the right kind of move to do that ?  Not so sure.  Is there really enough upside here to warrant the downsides of spending full retail price for a guy like this ?

    Duke was 1.3 wins above replacement this year- decent but not much of a difference maker.. He's costing the Sox roughly $ 4 mil per win (versus the $ 2.8 million per win that the "average" major leaguer cost in 2014).   Contenders will pay $ 4-5 million to get an extra win, because each win counts more for a playoff or near playoff team.  But teams that won 73 games shouldn't be looking at things that way.

    Only way this deal has decent upside for the Sox is if Duke becomes the Sox Closer and doubles his win value.  He could have that capability - he became a different pitcher this year by changing his arm angle and pitching strictly in relief.   His K/BB ratio was eye-popping and he was a groundball-producing machine.   Good stuff if it continues and the Sox give him a more important role.    Even if Sox don't contend that showcases him for a possible midseason trade. 

    But $ 15 million is still a stiff price to pay for a nonproven Closer who has had only one good season in the last 8 and is 32 years old.  He could quickly become a financial millstone - not as big as Dunn obviously was, but his salary could crowd out some other priorities.  Unless he is the Closer for the Sox, the upside just doesn't justify the financial risks.
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    Cream1953
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:05 am

    But $ 15 million is still a stiff price to pay for a nonproven Closer who has had only one good season in the last 8 and is 32 years old. He could quickly become a financial millstone - not as big as Dunn obviously was, but his salary could crowd out some other priorities.

    **************************************************************************

    In other words precisely what I said in another thread. Relievers are such a crap shoot and, as has been proven time and again, teams with good bullpens tend to be more lucky than good. Way to much money spent on these borderline stiffs.
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by rmapasad on Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:47 am

    Cream1953 wrote:n other words precisely what I said in another thread. Relievers are such a crap shoot and, as has been proven time and again, teams with good bullpens tend to be more lucky than good. Way to much money spent on these borderline stiffs.
    Relievers are a crap shoot. For every Gossage or Rivera who have careers of sustained success, there are 10 guys  who tend to flame out after 2-3 good seasons.  Consequently, the only successful strategy is to have a quantity of arms who you can run in when other guys start to falter.  KC, Baltimore and Oakland for example have all been in the top 5 in bullpen ERA these last three years.  Same story with the Giants and Nationals in the NL.   Those clubs take power arms who don't have the full repertoire to be starters and convert them into relievers.  But they have to keep re-stocking the system as these same relievers can go into the toilet after a few years.

    I think that clubs who buy relievers on the open market often wind up with pigs in a poke.  Look at the Tigers and Nathan this year. Or the Dodgers who spent nearly $ 30 million on a collection of veteran stiffs  (Wilson, League, Howell, Wright, Perez, etc). They had to leave Kershaw in to get pounded in late innings in NLDS because those guys in the pen couldn't be trusted. Getting a reliever who's been good for last 1-3 years and paying full freight in hopes that he'll stay that good is usually bad business.

    IMO, Sox should be spending the $ 15 million they sunk on Duke on some young free agent beanpoles in the Dominican or Cuba who throw 95 mph and could be useful in 2016-2017 when the team might have a shot at contending.
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    Hawk Harrelson
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    Re: Duke of hazzard

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:48 am

    It is a stiff price for the Sox.  Other teams throw this money around like the confetti the FANBOYS picked off the street in 2005.

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