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    SEND THEM PACKING

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    rmapasad
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by rmapasad on Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:11 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:That's the corner I want to see him turn....out of Chicago.

    Thanks to the start today, he might not be going anywhere.  He was one of the top starters in the AL from late May - mid July.  But getting shelled by the likes of Houston  brings back the doubts.  It shows that he's still risky if his command isn't pinpoint.. Despite the fact he's  shown he can get it right against some tough teams - Detroit twice, Angels, Dodgers, Giants.  He needs a strong bounceback in his next start if the Sox expect to get anything of substance for him before the trade deadline. 
    It's possible that if he isn't traded by July 31 but pitches well through mid August, a contender might claim him off waivers.
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    Cream1953
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Cream1953 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:21 pm

    When the hell is this stiff ever pinpoint for crying out loud? Even on his "quality" outings he's usually thrown 100 pitches or more by the sixth inning if not sooner. He's a fucking one man bullpen killer. If this is considered pinpoint I'd sure as hell hate to see what he has to do to be considered wild. What can Danks bounce back from when he's never been there to be begin with? I'm convinced that any success Danks has ever had can be attributed to just plain luck as much as it can talent. Harp on him as much as you want Roger, you'll never convince me that he's anything more than just another stiff.
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    rmapasad
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by rmapasad on Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:14 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:When the hell is this stiff ever pinpoint for crying out loud? Even on his "quality" outings he's usually thrown 100 pitches or more by the sixth inning if not sooner. He's a fucking one man bullpen killer. If this is considered pinpoint I'd sure as hell hate to see what he has to do to be considered wild. What can Danks bounce back from when he's never been there to be begin with? I'm convinced that any success Danks has ever had can be attributed to just plain luck as much as it can talent. Harp on him as much as you want Roger, you'll never convince me that he's anything more than just another stiff.  


    There is no other way to answer this but facts, which will bring the usual "stats guy" protests..  Danks averages 6.2 innings per start this year which puts him in the top 1/3 of all starters in baseball in game longevity. 
    I have no illusions about this guy.  He has good games and bad games, more good than bad fortunately but when all the smoke clears he's basically league average... If you want to call an average SP a "stiff" that is your choice.  But then what is the term for guys like Rienzo,  Johnson, etc. who average barely over 5 innings with ERA's in the 5.00;s and 6:00's.?  That's the calibre of starter who are waiting in the wings once Danks departs.  Can hardly wait.

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:38 am

    rmapasad wrote:
    Gordon Beckham wrote:The goofiest post recently is Roger wanting the dopey Sox to keep John Danks IF they are to contend in 2016?


    Since the current roster is loaded again with SHIT, you can assume that these stiffs will not be here in 2016 to CONTEND.


    SO, WHO EXACTLY WILL BE ON THE ROSTER IN 2016 AND HOW IN THE HELL IS CONTENTION GUARANTEED??


    UNLOAD DANKS AND HIS MONEY!

    First of all, you were the one advocating a Beckham extension a month ago because he was "competent".  Now you want to scuttle that actually are  competent.  Nobody can GUARANTEE contention any time.  Hahn has to make his best guess whether it makes sense or not in 2016, 2017 or 2018.    I don't care what the plan is, but there NEEDS TO BE A PLAN.

    If it's 2016, they have holes to fill - Catcher, DH, LF,  2b, starting pitchers and a decent bullpen.  Very few if any of those holes are going to be fixed by the farm system.. But here's the brilliant fucking solution for 2016 - create TWO MORE HOLES by salary dumping Danks and Ramirez now under the belief that somehow the Sox can find a cheap SS and starting pitcher out of thin air, and use the "savings" of their salaries to buy a superstar...   Fantasy island...

    If the Sox want to punt 2015 and 2016, fine, then blow up everything now except for a core - Abreu, Sale, Eaton, Quintana.   In 2017-2018  Reinsdorf will still have to spend money to fill in for the holes and he will have to end up paying up for average performers in the market... You can't win shit with 4 good players and 21 stiffs...  

    Of course if it's 2017-2018, then dump Danks and Ramirez now and work on trying to achieve some measure of competency from the "other 21" players... Simple as that.


    Hillarious!!!!!!!

    The people that want to blow thiis team of stiffs up are living on fantasy island.

    Yet the board's calculator can offer nothing more than a temper tntrum!!

    All the Sox need is a plan. No shit Sherlock. But where are the dteail of this plan?

    The only way Sox contend in 15 or 16 is to spend a boatload of cash on free agents then pay its not some JOey Belle or Adam Dunn type disaster.

    What is fantasy island is that all the holes you listed will magically fill themselves because somebody wrote up a plan. The way to fill those holes is by trading Ramirez and Danks for some youth and pray you get back Adam Eaton intsead of Matt Davidson.

    The KARK would rather be cheap and bad than mediocre and expensive

    S, the Sox ain't building a farm until they give up their obsession with power arms. The Sox outfield sucks from a ball to the mlb level. Maybe tattoo can come up with a plan for that
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    Cream1953
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Cream1953 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:12 am

    Danks averages 6.2 innings per start this year which puts him in the top 1/3 of all starters in baseball in game longevity.
    *********************************************************************

    Yeah. Pathetic isn't it? No wonder bullpens get overworked. Dank's 120 pitch 6 inning "quality" jobs not only means the bullpen has to cover at least 3 innings for him, it also puts the onus on the rest of your staff who have to try and go longer so your bullpen doesn't get gassed.
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Shooters Buffet on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:51 am

    When does the Michael Taylor Era begin????
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    rmapasad
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:34 pm

    The only way Sox contend in 15 or 16 is to spend a boatload of cash on free agents then pay its not some JOey Belle or Adam Dunn type disaster.
    What is fantasy island is that all the holes you listed will magically fill themselves because somebody wrote up a plan.  The way to fill those holes is by trading Ramirez and Danks for some youth and pray you get back Adam Eaton intsead of Matt Davidson.
    The KARK would rather be cheap and bad than mediocre and expensive
    S, the Sox ain't building a farm until they give up their obsession with power arms. The Sox outfield sucks from a ball to the mlb level.  Maybe tattoo can come up with a plan for that[/quote]

    Cheap and bad, eh ? Get ready for another 2 years (at least) of looking like the Epstein Cubs. Reinsdorf might really like this plan -
    $ 45 -50 million payrolls + low rent + his TV revenues can still make him a tidy profit. Who cares about low attendance and 70-75 win seasons ? He's dealt with that recently. This is a business, and fans can go to hell.

    I don't know if the Sox can contend in 2016. It's not impossible. Tigers will be getting old by then. But it will take a $ 110 million + payroll to do it. There's only one team with a payroll less than $100 miliion who will make the playoffs this year and that's Oakland.

    Either Sox put on their big boy pants and spend like contenders need to in order to fill gaps or they go the Marlins/Astros route. They can clearly have a Marlins-like payroll next year with Sale, Abreu and Quitana = mere $ 16 million and rest young and cheap for $ 20 mil.
    That would be a great accomplishment for Reinsdorf's wallet.





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    jaywit
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by jaywit on Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:18 pm

    rmapasad wrote:The only way Sox contend in 15 or 16 is to spend a boatload of cash on free agents then pay its not some JOey Belle or Adam Dunn type disaster.
    What is fantasy island is that all the holes you listed will magically fill themselves because somebody wrote up a plan.  The way to fill those holes is by trading Ramirez and Danks for some youth and pray you get back Adam Eaton intsead of Matt Davidson.
    The KARK would rather be cheap and bad than mediocre and expensive
    S, the Sox ain't building a farm until they give up their obsession with power arms. The Sox outfield sucks from a ball to the mlb level.  Maybe tattoo can come up with a plan for that

    Cheap and bad, eh ?  Get ready for another 2 years (at least) of looking like the Epstein Cubs. Reinsdorf might really like this plan -
    $ 45 -50 million payrolls + low rent + his TV revenues can still make him a tidy profit.  Who cares about low attendance and 70-75 win seasons ?  He's dealt with that recently.  This is a business, and fans can go to hell.  

    That would be a great accomplishment for Reinsdorf's wallet.





    [/quote]


    I've been saying this for the last 2-3 years.
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    rmapasad
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:20 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:Danks averages 6.2 innings per start this year which puts him in the top 1/3 of all starters in baseball in game longevity.

    Yeah. Pathetic isn't it? No wonder bullpens get overworked. Dank's 120 pitch 6 inning "quality" jobs not only means the bullpen has to cover at least 3 innings for him, it also puts the onus on the rest of your staff who have to try and go longer so your bullpen doesn't get gassed.

    Yes, but the average start length for all AL starters is only 5.9 innings. So Danks on average makes his bullpen go 2 and 2/3 inning where an avg. AL starter makes his bullpen go 3 innings.
    Is this dramatically different than 50 years ago ?  Oddly no, because even though complete games were 10 times more prevalant than now, there were also more  lousy starters getting chased early requiring "long relievers".  In 1964, the "average" AL starter averaged 6.2 innings v. 5.9 today.   So starters back then only saved bullpens 1 more out v. today...  Back then, relievers would go 130 innings v. 60-70 today and starters would also be used in relief...
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    Cream1953
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Cream1953 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:16 pm

    I've been saying this for the last 2-3 years.

    *****************************************************************************

    Yeah but since everyone ignores you why bother?  Razz 

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:54 pm

    Contrary to the impression given off by Tattoo, going cheap in 2015 doesn't stop them from opening up the wallet in 2016

    In fat, going cheap in 2015 would make it easier to open up the wallet.

    This idea that Danks and Ramirez are must haves for contenton is the silliest thing I've read outsie of Blago's Cell
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:53 pm

    THE KARK wrote:Contrary to the impression given off by Tattoo, going cheap in 2015 doesn't stop them from opening up the wallet in 2016
    In fat, going cheap in 2015 would make it easier to open up the wallet.
    This idea that Danks and Ramirez are must haves for contenton is the silliest thing I've read outsie of Blago's Cell

    You plan for contention in 2016 is complete horseshit - fantasy thinking. You want a 2015 team with 10 glaring holes - (2b, SS, Catcher, LF, DH,
    3 starting pitchers, Closer and solid setup guy) and then want to spend no real money on any of them next year All this while no one on AAA or AA roster offers realistic hope of plugging those holes by 2015-2016. Sox may have a couple of keepers in A ball and below, but they don't arrive until 2017-2018.
    There is no friggin' way a team with 10 holes in 2015 fixes them with a sudden surge of money in 2016... There aren't that many good free agents who hit the market in any one year, and no one team can monopolize the good ones. Especially a cheap-ass Reinsdorf owned team.

    IF the team truly wants to contend in 2016, they have to cover 4-5 of those holes in 2015 by retaining whomever they have that's adequate plus snag a couple of free agent keepers in the market. Then they fix the other 4-5 holes as best possible in 2016. That's probably unrealistic too.

    Maybe the most realistic plan is simply to punt 2015, 2016 and maybe 2017.





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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by frank bonifacic on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:19 pm

    THE KARK wrote:Contrary to the impression given off by Tattoo, going cheap in 2015 doesn't stop them from opening up the wallet in 2016

    In fat, going cheap in 2015 would make it easier to open up the wallet.

    This idea that Danks and Ramirez are must haves for contenton is the silliest thing I've read outsie of Blago's Cell


    And, you didn't even write it!!

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:24 pm

    Excuse me, but where has the KARK post that going younger cheaper in 2015 put them in a position to contend in 2016?

    If anybody is arguing out of both sides of their keyboard its you.

    First you say they need to keep the John Danks of the world if they wish to contend in 2016, then you say that's probably unrealistic as well.

    Your plan to overpay mediocrity is a high risk gamble that by your own admission, will most likely NOT payoff. A sane person does not piss away money on such crack pot schemes.

    Another thing, you cannot plan to contend in the manner you describe. Your notion that you can just pick a year and proclaim THE contending year is the silliest thing I have read outside of Blago's Cell.

    There are way too many unknowns to say 16 is the year. Or 17 is the year. Or 18 or 19. A logical and organized thinking mind takes it on a year by year basis. But regardless of whether or not you are a buyer or seller, one idea remains constant. that is DO NOT OVERPAY FOR TALENT. But that is exactly what you are suggesting when you say the Sox need Danks and Ramirez the the magical 2016 year that will appear out of nowhere

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:38 pm

    Maybe the most realistic plan is simply to punt 2015, 2016 and maybe 2017.

    *****************************************************************


    NO, THE MOST REALISTIC THING TO DO IS PUNT 2015, THEN CHECK YOUR FIELD POSITION B4 DECIDING WHAT TO DO IN 2016.

    THAT SAID, I FAIL TO SEE HOW DANKS AND/OR RAMIREZ HELP EITHER SCENARIO. REGARDLESS OF WHAT STATISTICAL MUMBO JUMBO YOU COME UP WITH, PITCHERS THAT STRUGGLE TO GO 10-10 AND MIDDLE INFIELDERS THAT STRUGGLE TO KEEP THEIR OPS OVER 700 ARE NOT IRREPLACEABLE COGS AND CERTAINLY AREN'T WORTH $25 MIL A YEAR

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:54 pm

    Maybe the most realistic plan is simply to punt 2015, 2016 and maybe 2017.








    Remember where ya read it first ...and I'll repeat ...realistically the aim is 2019-20.  
    - and that's if one minor leaguer makes it every year
    - one free agent worth a damn is signed every year
    - nobody needs Tommy John after the 2017 season
    - they hire a manager and coaching staff who knows what the fuck they are doing
    - and by contend, I mean make the ALCS championship series or World Series..none of this central division champs BS

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Guest on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:36 pm

    Well if getting in the world series is the criteria, let's make it 2045 since the Sox have historically needed at least 40 years to return to the series

    Here's a thought. Maybe the Sox are destined to be mediocre with periodic and unpredictable flash in the pan years where they sneak into the playoffs. I believe others have called it learned helplessness.

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:49 am

    How many years has Reinsdorf run the show?


    Tell me what is going to change?


    How many times has this franchise been the pre-season favorite to win the Central Division?


    First Cleveland was beating their asses, then the Twins and now Detroit.


    Due to the idiotic financial structure of baseball, Reinsdorf has chosen to compete on his terms.


    It has been obvious for decades.  This team has not been to the post season two years in a row and there are all kinds of ways to get to the post season now.


    This is a joke.

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Guest on Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:25 pm

    THE KARK wrote:DUNN
    DANKS
    DE AZA
    RAMIREZ
    VICIEDO
    BECKHAM
    BELISARIO
    NOESI


    Looks like the entire elite 8 will be staying with the White Sox

    I guess for guys like Danks, the Sox asked too much.

    I guess for guys like De Aza, they just suck too much

    As for guys like Ramirez, I guess they figure an All Star SS wsould be key in chasing the 2015 AL Central title.

    As for Dunn and Beckham, I bet the Sox secretly think that can still make the playoffs and these 2 are better than anything on the farm.
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    Jack Brickhouse
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Jack Brickhouse on Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:57 pm

    The only poster who thinks the farm system has players of value who are YOUNG and GOOD is on magic mushrooms out West.


    Big Fan of Jefferson Airplane and the Charlotte Knights.


    Go ask Alice!!!
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    Cream1953
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Cream1953 on Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:25 pm

    Big Fan of Jefferson Airplane

    ***********************************************************************

    I loved the Airplane, especially with a big fat bomber and a bottle of Boone's Farm. Back in the day, Grace Slick was a goddess.  I love you 

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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Guest on Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:44 pm

    Grace Slick was a goddess


    Now she's an artist whose stuff is sold at the Atlas Gallarie on Michigan avenue for more bucks than Gracie Slick is worth ... btw, didn't age well - booze and cigs aren't good for the complexion.
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    Cream1953
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    Re: SEND THEM PACKING

    Post by Cream1953 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:37 am

    I think Grace is an outstanding artist. As for her looks, yes she's a shadow of what she used to be but then again she'll soon be 75 too. Gracie was never a teeny-bopper pop star, When the Airplane hit it big she was pushing 30 which made her kinda  "old" by rock star standards. She STILL has those piercing eyes though.

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