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    Dump DeAza next!!

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    jaywit
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by jaywit on Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:13 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:Understand that nobody is making the claim that K's are good, or that K's don't matter.  They matter to some degree.  Offensive production matters a hell of a lot more.  There is also nobody trying to argue that HOF production is easy to attain while striking out 150 or 200 times.  That's not the point.  MY point is only that if the production is there, K's don't matter.

    The following Hall of Famers led the league in strikeouts during their careers:
     Stargell once.
    Mantle 5 times
    Matthews once
    Greenberg once
    Rice once
    Jimmie Foxx 7 times (cut his ass!)
    Killebrew once
    Babe Ruth 5 times (release him)
    Reggie 5 times
    Schmidt 4 times

    There are more, but I didn't feel look looking any further.  Strikeouts are just fine as long as they are the byproduct of good or great production.




    That's assuming there is no correlation between production and putting a ball in play.  A ball in play isn't a given that it's an out.  A strikeout is a sure out.  You're looking retrospectively.  If you look at a situation prospectively, is there ever a time when someone on your team is at bat that you hope for a strikeout?  Even when Konerko is at bat with a man on first, would the Sox be better off conceding a strikeout?
     
    I get the idea that power hitters must swing hard and by doing so will not have the bat control that a contact hitter will have.  To me that's an acceptable trade-off for good power hitters.  In this day and age of baseball what I don't get is the supposed contact hitters striking out so much.  Their value clearly goes down by making more outs striking out than putting the ball in play, forcing the defense to make a play.
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:22 am

    jaywit wrote:
    That's assuming there is no correlation between production and putting a ball in play.  A ball in play isn't a given that it's an out.  A strikeout is a sure out.  You're looking retrospectively.  If you look at a situation prospectively, is there ever a time when someone on your team is at bat that you hope for a strikeout?  Even when Konerko is at bat with a man on first, would the Sox be better off conceding a strikeout?
     
    I get the idea that power hitters must swing hard and by doing so will not have the bat control that a contact hitter will have.  To me that's an acceptable trade-off for good power hitters.  In this day and age of baseball what I don't get is the supposed contact hitters striking out so much.  Their value clearly goes down by making more outs striking out than putting the ball in play, forcing the defense to make a play.
    [/size]

    Absolutely, Jay.  You follow my point perfectly.  I don't like strikeouts, because I like hits better.  You too, most likely.  My point was only that K's aren't a problem if they come with great production as a byproduct.  That's always been my point. 

    From a prospective point, if you're going to ask me, or even the dumbest person on earth if they prefer a strikeout or a ground ball (which may find a hole), the answer is going to be pretty obviously the ground ball. 

    I don't have an answer for why contact hitters are K'ing so much now.  There's been talk that it's a byproduct of stathead-itis of this generation.  Maybe they are swinging harder, figuring the few extra HRs will make up for the lack of contact when they K.  I know I've mentioned I play baseball in a 42 and over league.  Despite my stance on looking at K's in retrospect, I do everything in my power to make contact when I'm up there.  It's a huge deal to me not to strike out. 

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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:14 pm

    Even when Konerko is at bat with a man on first, would the Sox be better off conceding a strikeout?

    ************************************************************************

    I agree with the essence of what you're stating Jay but using your Konerko example things then become far more of a gray area.  Very Happy
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    jaywit
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by jaywit on Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:17 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:Even when Konerko is at bat with a man on first, would the Sox be better off conceding a strikeout?

    ************************************************************************

    I agree with the essence of what you're stating Jay but using your Konerko example things then become far more of a gray area.  Very Happy



    So belittling my words in writing isn't enough for you now?  Now you're belittling them physically too???
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by jaywit on Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:48 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    jaywit wrote:
    That's assuming there is no correlation between production and putting a ball in play.  A ball in play isn't a given that it's an out.  A strikeout is a sure out.  You're looking retrospectively.  If you look at a situation prospectively, is there ever a time when someone on your team is at bat that you hope for a strikeout?  Even when Konerko is at bat with a man on first, would the Sox be better off conceding a strikeout?
     
    I get the idea that power hitters must swing hard and by doing so will not have the bat control that a contact hitter will have.  To me that's an acceptable trade-off for good power hitters.  In this day and age of baseball what I don't get is the supposed contact hitters striking out so much.  Their value clearly goes down by making more outs striking out than putting the ball in play, forcing the defense to make a play.
    [/size]

    Absolutely, Jay.  You follow my point perfectly.  I don't like strikeouts, because I like hits better.  You too, most likely.  My point was only that K's aren't a problem if they come with great production as a byproduct.  That's always been my point. 

    From a prospective point, if you're going to ask me, or even the dumbest person on earth if they prefer a strikeout or a ground ball (which may find a hole), the answer is going to be pretty obviously the ground ball. 

    I don't have an answer for why contact hitters are K'ing so much now.  There's been talk that it's a byproduct of stathead-itis of this generation.  Maybe they are swinging harder, figuring the few extra HRs will make up for the lack of contact when they K.  I know I've mentioned I play baseball in a 42 and over league.  Despite my stance on looking at K's in retrospect, I do everything in my power to make contact when I'm up there.  It's a huge deal to me not to strike out. 



    I could accept Dunn's strikeouts if he had better production.  I'm just shooting from the hip but I'd think for someone to be acceptable and still strikeout nearly 200 times per year and have a BA at or below .200, they'd have to routinely have 45+ homers per year.  Short of that, they're a detriment.  Maybe Roger can come in with stats to back this up or dispute it.

    De Aza, on the other hand, should hardly ever strike out.  Whether he hits 5 homers or 15 homers per year has low relevance and the fall off in homers would probably be overcome by making contact with every at bat, utilizing his speed to beat out the weak grounders/infield hits and batting 20 points higher.  Then, he could be on base for the big thumpers (again, a theoretical gain given that the Sox have no reliable big thumpers).
     
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Bobbyrosebowl on Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:19 pm

    Look at it this way.....the useless Oaf not only strikes out 200 times per season, he also hits .200!!!!
    So, if Oaf gets HIS NUMBERS, the odds are, batting a whole .200, that a lot of his NUMBERS don't mean a damned thing to the team. If the team is ahead 5-0 or behind 7-0, what difference do OAF'S NUMBERS mean.

    How many men has this dope left on base during his NUMBERS DRIVEN Sox career?

    Striking out 200 times on top of batting .200 means the guy fucking SUCKS.
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:29 pm

    Bobbyrosebowl wrote:
    Striking out 200 times on top of batting .200 means the guy fucking SUCKS.



    Oh, hell yeah.  I might accept .200 if it came with about 60 HRs and 130 RBI, but whenever that happens will be the first and probably last time.  Dunn just plain sucks, regardless.  I'm still trying to figure out how he just swings right through so many fastballs. 

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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by winstonage on Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:59 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    Bobbyrosebowl wrote:
    Striking out 200 times on top of batting .200 means the guy fucking SUCKS.



    Oh, hell yeah.  I might accept .200 if it came with about 60 HRs and 130 RBI, but whenever that happens will be the first and probably last time.  Dunn just plain sucks, regardless.  I'm still trying to figure out how he just swings right through so many fastballs. 




    Whatever bat speed he had is gone. He just manages to run into one 30 times a year. I think the Oaf is Kenny's legacy, but fuck Dunn and Kenny, I am loving what Hahn is doing.






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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by rmapasad on Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:55 pm

    De Aza, on the other hand, should hardly ever strike out.  Whether he hits 5 homers or 15 homers per year has low relevance and the fall off in homers would probably be overcome by making contact with every at bat, utilizing his speed to beat out the weak grounders/infield hits and batting 20 points higher.  Then, he could be on base for the big thumpers (again, a theoretical gain given that the Sox have no reliable big thumpers).


    DeAza was more the type of hitter you describe in his 1/2 season in 2011, when he hit .323. His groundball % was much higher (49% v. 41% this year), he had a good % of IF hits.  Ironically, his K rate in 2011 (20%) wasn't that much different than this year.  The big difference in DeAza's results this year v. then is that he appears to be uppercutting the ball and as a result he is hitting many more popups (three times as many as he did in 2011) and cans of corn. In addition his IF hit% has dropped off sharply.   This coupled with his fewer SB's and declining defense, this seems to suggest he's lost a little speed.


    Maybe he is trying to uppercut and use his power more as the result of loss of speed.  Whatever the case, he has become more vulnerable to offspeed stuff.. He really couldn't have maintained the luck or perhaps even the speed he had in 2011 (.400 avg on balls in play) and after his first year and half around the league, I think the word got out about his vulnerability to offspeed stuff.  As a result, a group of bad things happened -  elevated K rate, lower BB rate, more flyballs, less IF hits, and WAY more popups...Sure it would help if he exchanged some of his K's for more balls in play.. It would help even more if he exchanged his weak balls in play for more sharp groundballs and line drives.
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Bobbyrosebowl on Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:05 pm

    DeAza is a chump. An idiot on the bases. Weak defensive outfielder. A joke as a leadoff man.

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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Guest on Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:14 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:Understand that nobody is making the claim that K's are good, or that K's don't matter.  They matter to some degree.  Offensive production matters a hell of a lot more.  There is also nobody trying to argue that HOF production is easy to attain while striking out 150 or 200 times.  That's not the point.  MY point is only that if the production is there, K's don't matter.

    The following Hall of Famers led the league in strikeouts during their careers:
     Stargell once.
    Mantle 5 times
    Matthews once
    Greenberg once
    Rice once
    Jimmie Foxx 7 times (cut his ass!)
    Killebrew once
    Babe Ruth 5 times (release him)
    Reggie 5 times
    Schmidt 4 times

    There are more, but I didn't feel look looking any further.  Strikeouts are just fine as long as they are the byproduct of good or great production.



    ...lets look at this a little closer -  there have been 500 players who have seasonal strikeout numbers between 135 to the all time high 223.   Hall of Famers include Mike Schmidt 4 times, Reggie 5 times, Killebrew 2 times, and Stargell  once ..thats it!  So of the top 500 strikeouts in a season, only 4 Hall of Famers are present....and dominated by what Todd would have called borderline hall of famers...


    Now lets look at the individuals - Jimmie Fox lead 7 times ..his MAX strikeouts in one season was 119, and he averaged 102 for his career....Mantle - top 126, but averaged 117 per season ....and finally, your prime example,  Babe Ruth - top strikeout in one season 93..averaged 86 per season (just another point as to why Ruth was head and shoulder the greatest player who ever lived).

    Seems to me that making the Hall of Fame, and being someone who strikes out a lot, don't go hand in hand.

    One question..when your kid is up, do you feel his at-bat was as good if he strikes out as it is if he hits it somewhere??   I never did . 
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:29 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:
    Now lets look at the individuals - Jimmie Fox lead 7 times ..his MAX strikeouts in one season was 119, and he averaged 102 for his career....Mantle - top 126, but averaged 117 per season ....and finally, your prime example,  Babe Ruth - top strikeout in one season 93..averaged 86 per season (just another point as to why Ruth was head and shoulder the greatest player who ever lived).


    You're dismissing that K's were more frowned upon and less common in the days of Foxx, Mantle and Ruth.  The statheads have made them more acceptable and the players buy in.  As I noted and you concurred, many HOF'ers have led their league in K's.  Leading the league in K's means you struck out A LOT, even if when they did it, they only had 87 K's or 110.  Today's 150 K's is yesterday's 110 and is about 85 in 1930.  Back in the Ruthian days, I believe I saw some leaders with only 85 K's.  I believe there was a much greater premium placed on making contact back then.  Can you imagine a player in this day and age hitting with a bottle bat like Nellie did?  Choking up three inches and going into a crouch on two strikes and trying to make contact?  They'd call him a pussy and laugh him out of the league. 



    One question..when your kid is up, do you feel his at-bat was as good if he strikes out as it is if he hits it somewhere??   I never did . 

    I assuredly don't like seeing him strike out, but he has had many at bats that ended in a K, where I told him it was a great at bat that didn't end well, and he's had many an easy batted out (infield pop or ground out to pitcher) where I ragged on him for having a horrible at bat, swinging at a bad first or a pitch off the plate on a 2-0 count.  He doesn't accept a K well, but if it's an at bat with some good swings, going deep in the count, a couple foul balls, and then strike three on a tough pitch or a pitcher's pitch, I'll take that over a piss poor first pitch ground out to the pitcher.  Swinging at a bullshit pitch on the first pitch of an at bat and making an easy out is the most aggravating thing for this dad.  To your point, when you're playing at the 11U travel level, there are still lots of errors, so hitting the ball is pretty handy and a great way to reach base.  I won't begrudge you that point, but I just want to see a great at bat. 

    [/size]


    Last edited by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Soxillinirob on Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:41 pm

    When I gaze upon the strikeout leaders of the past fifteen years or so, I see several names among the top ten K leaders in those years that are potentially HOF'ers, or who were all star type players.  I see Thome many times, Ryan Howard a lot, Sosa a bunch, even though his chances are shot.   I see names like Granderson and Kemp and Cabrera all over the list.  K's, and lots of them, are a part of the game now.  There are many others I'm not even mentioning.  Many of the names I listed above have 150 or more K's in what were considered to be very productive seasons.
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:36 am


    Now lets look at the individuals - Jimmie Fox lead 7 times ..his MAX strikeouts in one season was 119, and he averaged 102 for his career....Mantle - top 126, but averaged 117 per season ....and finally, your prime example,  Babe Ruth - top strikeout in one season 93..averaged 86 per season (just another point as to why Ruth was head and shoulder the greatest player who ever lived).  Seems to me that making the Hall of Fame, and being someone who strikes out a lot, don't go hand in hand.>>

    Agree.. .MOST high K guys have their batting averages depressed as a result and go the route of the Dunns, Ugglas, Burnitzes, etc... But I think Rob's point was that high K's do not doom a guy's career or even from him making the Hall of Fame.. Re: Ruth and Mantle .  Most pitchers in their day didn't throw as hard as now.. League avg. strikeouts were only 7% of all PA's in Ruth's era and 12% in Mantle's versus today's league average of 20%.  Babe led the league in K's 5 times, and was second 9 times.  He was the strikeout king of his era and so was Mickey - first in league K's 5 times, second or 3rd 5 times..The counterbalance of course, is that these guys did a whale lot more than anyone else when they didn't strike out..

    One question..when your kid is up, do you feel his at-bat was as good if he strikes out as it is if he hits it somewhere??   I never did . 
    Sharpie, I think that you've hit on where a lot of our hatred of strikeouts comes from.. K's make kids look like they really suck..There is basis to that in youth ball since the quality of pitching is spotty and not being able to put at least put some wood on the ball shows weakness.  Plus the fielding is often crappy and balls in play frequently elude slow reacting fielders or result in outright muffings.. Hitting the ball somewhere was usually considered a worthy effort. Not so in major league ball, where over 70% of balls put into play are outs and only 1% become errors.  This is why Jeff Keppinger sucks - he was 4th best in majors in avoiding strikeouts, but his balls in play result in a TON of outs...
     Power hitters circumvent ball in play outs by hitting 'em where they truly ain't - over the fence, off the fence or deep in the OF gaps... The risk of course is their longer swings make them more whiff prone.. But the major leagues have tolerated those risks and a near TRIPLING of the strikeout rate since early 1920's . Because they saw the value that the Ruths,  Mantles, Reggies, etc. brought (strikeouts and all) and even lesser power hitters such as Kluzewski, Boog Powell, etc...They've also seen that "other outs" are preferable to K's only in a small percentage of situations and those are often cancelled out by an equally insignificant # of situations where K's are "better" outs to make than a double play ball..  Just ask any Mgr what he'd rather see his hitter do with men on 1st and 2nd, 1 out- strikeout or hit a ground ball to the SS.  In the final analysis what really counts are two simple things:   1 - how many outs (of any type) a guy makes and 2 -amount of good he creates when he doesn't make outs.
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by rmapasad on Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:47 am

    I assuredly don't like seeing him strike out, but he has had many at bats that ended in a K, where I told him it was a great at bat that didn't end well, and he's had many an easy batted out (infield pop or ground out to pitcher) where I ragged on him for having a horrible at bat, swinging at a bad first or a pitch off the plate on a 2-0 count.  He doesn't accept a K well, but if it's an at bat with some good swings, going deep in the count, a couple foul balls, and then strike three on a tough pitch or a pitcher's pitch, I'll take that over a piss poor first pitch ground out to the pitcher.  Swinging at a bullshit pitch on the first pitch of an at bat and making an easy out is the most aggravating thing for this dad.  To your point, when you're playing at the 11U travel level, there are still lots of errors, so hitting the ball is pretty handy and a great way to reach base.  I won't begrudge you that point, but I just want to see a great at bat.  >>
    You represent the more sophisticated parent and/or coach.  Coaches over the last twenty years have a better understanding of the game and concepts like pitch selectivity, but when I played youth ball it was all about making contact.  You were OK if you could and lousy when you struck out even if you made the pitcher work for it.
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Soxillinirob on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:53 am

    rmapasad wrote:I assuredly don't like seeing him strike out, but he has had many at bats that ended in a K, where I told him it was a great at bat that didn't end well, and he's had many an easy batted out (infield pop or ground out to pitcher) where I ragged on him for having a horrible at bat, swinging at a bad first or a pitch off the plate on a 2-0 count.  He doesn't accept a K well, but if it's an at bat with some good swings, going deep in the count, a couple foul balls, and then strike three on a tough pitch or a pitcher's pitch, I'll take that over a piss poor first pitch ground out to the pitcher.  Swinging at a bullshit pitch on the first pitch of an at bat and making an easy out is the most aggravating thing for this dad.  To your point, when you're playing at the 11U travel level, there are still lots of errors, so hitting the ball is pretty handy and a great way to reach base.  I won't begrudge you that point, but I just want to see a great at bat.  >>
    You represent the more sophisticated parent and/or coach.  Coaches over the last twenty years have a better understanding of the game and concepts like pitch selectivity, but when I played youth ball it was all about making contact.  You were OK if you could and lousy when you struck out even if you made the pitcher work for it.

    Part of my attitude comes from seeing my kid make the jump last year from house league to travel.  In house league, making contact in fair territory generally meant at least a double for a 10 yr old.  As an 11 yr old travel kid, making contact meant about a 40% chance of being a hit, and if you swung at shit and made horrible contact, your chances were more like 25% or 30%.  Thusly, I have taken to teaching the strategy of swinging at good pitches and going deep in counts and encouraging kids after strikeouts, especially if the at bat was overall a positive one. 
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Father of Satan on Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:45 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:I assuredly don't like seeing him strike out, but he has had many at bats that ended in a K, where I told him it was a great at bat that didn't end well, and he's had many an easy batted out (infield pop or ground out to pitcher) where I ragged on him for having a horrible at bat, swinging at a bad first or a pitch off the plate on a 2-0 count.  He doesn't accept a K well, but if it's an at bat with some good swings, going deep in the count, a couple foul balls, and then strike three on a tough pitch or a pitcher's pitch, I'll take that over a piss poor first pitch ground out to the pitcher.  Swinging at a bullshit pitch on the first pitch of an at bat and making an easy out is the most aggravating thing for this dad.  To your point, when you're playing at the 11U travel level, there are still lots of errors, so hitting the ball is pretty handy and a great way to reach base.  I won't begrudge you that point, but I just want to see a great at bat.  >>
    You represent the more sophisticated parent and/or coach.  Coaches over the last twenty years have a better understanding of the game and concepts like pitch selectivity, but when I played youth ball it was all about making contact.  You were OK if you could and lousy when you struck out even if you made the pitcher work for it.

    Part of my attitude comes from seeing my kid make the jump last year from house league to travel.  In house league, making contact in fair territory generally meant at least a double for a 10 yr old.  As an 11 yr old travel kid, making contact meant about a 40% chance of being a hit, and if you swung at shit and made horrible contact, your chances were more like 25% or 30%.  Thusly, I have taken to teaching the strategy of swinging at good pitches and going deep in counts and encouraging kids after strikeouts, especially if the at bat was overall a positive one. 

    Fie! Your kid will be stricken with Adam Dunn Disease!
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by alohafri on Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:55 am

    Father of Satan wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:I assuredly don't like seeing him strike out, but he has had many at bats that ended in a K, where I told him it was a great at bat that didn't end well, and he's had many an easy batted out (infield pop or ground out to pitcher) where I ragged on him for having a horrible at bat, swinging at a bad first or a pitch off the plate on a 2-0 count.  He doesn't accept a K well, but if it's an at bat with some good swings, going deep in the count, a couple foul balls, and then strike three on a tough pitch or a pitcher's pitch, I'll take that over a piss poor first pitch ground out to the pitcher.  Swinging at a bullshit pitch on the first pitch of an at bat and making an easy out is the most aggravating thing for this dad.  To your point, when you're playing at the 11U travel level, there are still lots of errors, so hitting the ball is pretty handy and a great way to reach base.  I won't begrudge you that point, but I just want to see a great at bat.  >>
    You represent the more sophisticated parent and/or coach.  Coaches over the last twenty years have a better understanding of the game and concepts like pitch selectivity, but when I played youth ball it was all about making contact.  You were OK if you could and lousy when you struck out even if you made the pitcher work for it.

    Part of my attitude comes from seeing my kid make the jump last year from house league to travel.  In house league, making contact in fair territory generally meant at least a double for a 10 yr old.  As an 11 yr old travel kid, making contact meant about a 40% chance of being a hit, and if you swung at shit and made horrible contact, your chances were more like 25% or 30%.  Thusly, I have taken to teaching the strategy of swinging at good pitches and going deep in counts and encouraging kids after strikeouts, especially if the at bat was overall a positive one. 

    Fie! Your kid will be stricken with Adam Dunn Disease!

    Hey! The quote function is fixed! I don't know what I did, but I am an Internet God!

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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by frank bonifacic on Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:06 pm

    alohafri wrote:
    Father of Satan wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:I assuredly don't like seeing him strike out, but he has had many at bats that ended in a K, where I told him it was a great at bat that didn't end well, and he's had many an easy batted out (infield pop or ground out to pitcher) where I ragged on him for having a horrible at bat, swinging at a bad first or a pitch off the plate on a 2-0 count.  He doesn't accept a K well, but if it's an at bat with some good swings, going deep in the count, a couple foul balls, and then strike three on a tough pitch or a pitcher's pitch, I'll take that over a piss poor first pitch ground out to the pitcher.  Swinging at a bullshit pitch on the first pitch of an at bat and making an easy out is the most aggravating thing for this dad.  To your point, when you're playing at the 11U travel level, there are still lots of errors, so hitting the ball is pretty handy and a great way to reach base.  I won't begrudge you that point, but I just want to see a great at bat.  >>
    You represent the more sophisticated parent and/or coach.  Coaches over the last twenty years have a better understanding of the game and concepts like pitch selectivity, but when I played youth ball it was all about making contact.  You were OK if you could and lousy when you struck out even if you made the pitcher work for it.

    Part of my attitude comes from seeing my kid make the jump last year from house league to travel.  In house league, making contact in fair territory generally meant at least a double for a 10 yr old.  As an 11 yr old travel kid, making contact meant about a 40% chance of being a hit, and if you swung at shit and made horrible contact, your chances were more like 25% or 30%.  Thusly, I have taken to teaching the strategy of swinging at good pitches and going deep in counts and encouraging kids after strikeouts, especially if the at bat was overall a positive one. 

    Fie! Your kid will be stricken with Adam Dunn Disease!

    Hey! The quote function is fixed! I don't know what I did, but I am an Internet God!

    You sound like Boris, the computer programmer in the James Bond movie "Golden Eye" ("I am invincible") and you remember what happened to him!!
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    Father of Satan
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Father of Satan on Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:56 pm

    frank bonifacic wrote:
    alohafri wrote:
    Father of Satan wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:
    rmapasad wrote:I assuredly don't like seeing him strike out, but he has had many at bats that ended in a K, where I told him it was a great at bat that didn't end well, and he's had many an easy batted out (infield pop or ground out to pitcher) where I ragged on him for having a horrible at bat, swinging at a bad first or a pitch off the plate on a 2-0 count.  He doesn't accept a K well, but if it's an at bat with some good swings, going deep in the count, a couple foul balls, and then strike three on a tough pitch or a pitcher's pitch, I'll take that over a piss poor first pitch ground out to the pitcher.  Swinging at a bullshit pitch on the first pitch of an at bat and making an easy out is the most aggravating thing for this dad.  To your point, when you're playing at the 11U travel level, there are still lots of errors, so hitting the ball is pretty handy and a great way to reach base.  I won't begrudge you that point, but I just want to see a great at bat.  >>
    You represent the more sophisticated parent and/or coach.  Coaches over the last twenty years have a better understanding of the game and concepts like pitch selectivity, but when I played youth ball it was all about making contact.  You were OK if you could and lousy when you struck out even if you made the pitcher work for it.

    Part of my attitude comes from seeing my kid make the jump last year from house league to travel.  In house league, making contact in fair territory generally meant at least a double for a 10 yr old.  As an 11 yr old travel kid, making contact meant about a 40% chance of being a hit, and if you swung at shit and made horrible contact, your chances were more like 25% or 30%.  Thusly, I have taken to teaching the strategy of swinging at good pitches and going deep in counts and encouraging kids after strikeouts, especially if the at bat was overall a positive one. 

    Fie! Your kid will be stricken with Adam Dunn Disease!

    Hey! The quote function is fixed! I don't know what I did, but I am an Internet God!

    You sound like Boris, the computer programmer in the James Bond movie "Golden Eye" ("I am invincible") and you remember what happened to him!!

    I'll take care of him!
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    Hawk Harrelson
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:36 pm

    Look who was waaaaay ahead of the curve about DeAza????


    STRETCH!!!!!!!

    frank bonifacic
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by frank bonifacic on Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:24 pm

    Hawk Harrelson wrote:Look who was waaaaay ahead of the curve about DeAza????


    STRETCH!!!!!!!

    Would someone please translate. The last post was 6 months ago. Whay is it that Bobby is talking about
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    Hawk Harrelson
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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

    Post by Hawk Harrelson on Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:31 pm

    Seems everybody has jumped on the Dump DeAza Bandwagon LATE!!


    MERCY!!!

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    Re: Dump DeAza next!!

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