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    Peavy is staying

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    alohafri
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    Peavy is staying

    Post by alohafri on Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:41 pm

    I read where the Sox are insisting that anyone who takes Peavy also takes over his entire contract, the Sox will pay nothing. I guess that's one way to tell the fans "hey, we tried."
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    Nomads44
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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by Nomads44 on Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:26 pm

    alohafri wrote:I read where the Sox are insisting that anyone who takes Peavy also takes over his entire contract, the Sox will pay nothing. I guess that's one way to tell the fans "hey, we tried."

     I saw tonight when I got home from a Cards/Cubs minor league game in Peoria that the Cards Carlos Martinez and Kolten Wong were mentioned again by Jim Bowden (ESPN) for Alexei and Jake Peavy.  To get those two, I'd be happy to pay much of the freight for those two.  You get two very possible future studs cheap for years to come for the cost we were stuck with for next year anyway.  Why insist someone else pay for our own mistakes.

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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:17 am

    Nomads44 wrote:
    alohafri wrote:I read where the Sox are insisting that anyone who takes Peavy also takes over his entire contract, the Sox will pay nothing. I guess that's one way to tell the fans "hey, we tried."

     I saw tonight when I got home from a Cards/Cubs minor league game in Peoria that the Cards Carlos Martinez and Kolten Wong were mentioned again by Jim Bowden (ESPN) for Alexei and Jake Peavy.  To get those two, I'd be happy to pay much of the freight for those two.  You get two very possible future studs cheap for years to come for the cost we were stuck with for next year anyway.  Why insist someone else pay for our own mistakes.

    Jim, I just took a look at Baseball America Prospect Handbook for 2008.  Out of the 30 major league teams there were 150 prospects that rated within  the top 5 for each team (30x5=150).  Out of those 150, I count 53 whom I would consider decent major league players today.  Most failed.  Only a little over a third made it and stuck around to become productive major leaguers, although many had brief "cups of coffee" in the big leagues like Lars Anderson.  What I'm getting to is if the Sox pick up 2 highly rated prospects from a team for Peavy and Ramirez, they would be fortunate that one of those two prospects 5 years from now would be a productive major leaguer, especially considering that the Sox track record at evaluating unproven talent is not that great (unless they are assembling a potential semi-pro football team).
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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by sox55 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:43 am

    Nomads44 wrote:
    alohafri wrote:I read where the Sox are insisting that anyone who takes Peavy also takes over his entire contract, the Sox will pay nothing. I guess that's one way to tell the fans "hey, we tried."

     I saw tonight when I got home from a Cards/Cubs minor league game in Peoria that the Cards Carlos Martinez and Kolten Wong were mentioned again by Jim Bowden (ESPN) for Alexei and Jake Peavy.  To get those two, I'd be happy to pay much of the freight for those two.  You get two very possible future studs cheap for years to come for the cost we were stuck with for next year anyway.  Why insist someone else pay for our own mistakes.
    If a team will not overpay for proven starter like Peavy,then the Sox SHOULD keep him for next season and re-tool the team around the starting pitching. The Sox are in the driver's seat with Peavy and they should NOT sell low.

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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by Guest on Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:20 am

    If a team will not overpay for proven starter like Peavy,then the Sox SHOULD keep him for next season and re-tool the team around the starting pitching. The Sox are in the driver's seat with Peavy and they should NOT sell low.


    There was a report over my phone that Peavy cleaned out his locker and wasn't expecting to return to Chicago. But I also heard the Sox had zero interest in picking up the tab on anyone, which has caused the Braves to say "no thanks".
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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by sox55 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:16 am

    Chi-kid wrote:If a team will not overpay for proven starter like Peavy,then the Sox SHOULD keep him for next season and re-tool the team around the starting pitching. The Sox are in the driver's seat with Peavy and they should NOT sell low.


    There was a report over my phone that Peavy cleaned out his locker and wasn't expecting to return to Chicago. But I also heard the Sox had zero interest in picking up the tab on anyone, which has caused the Braves to say "no thanks".
    Nomads told me that the Braves farm system isn't what it once was and there are probably no players other than pitchers that could help the Sox,,,,,,,,so the Braves are eliminated from the "Peavy Stakes".......let's see if the Cards sweeten the deal........if not, Peavy will be pitching here in Cleveland tomorrow and in Detroit on Sunday.

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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:00 am

    sox55 wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:
    alohafri wrote:I read where the Sox are insisting that anyone who takes Peavy also takes over his entire contract, the Sox will pay nothing. I guess that's one way to tell the fans "hey, we tried."

     I saw tonight when I got home from a Cards/Cubs minor league game in Peoria that the Cards Carlos Martinez and Kolten Wong were mentioned again by Jim Bowden (ESPN) for Alexei and Jake Peavy.  To get those two, I'd be happy to pay much of the freight for those two.  You get two very possible future studs cheap for years to come for the cost we were stuck with for next year anyway.  Why insist someone else pay for our own mistakes.
    If a team will not overpay for proven starter like Peavy,then the Sox SHOULD keep him for next season and re-tool the team around the starting pitching. The Sox are in the driver's seat with Peavy and they should NOT sell low.

    What the hell are the Sox going to do if they trade Peavy?  Stick Axelrod back into the pitching rotation as their only right-handed starter?  I guess that would make some sense if the Sox are playing for the highest possible draft choice in next summer's amateur draft.  But what good would that do when they will only waste their pick on some fringe football player?  Anyway, since Axelrod is somehow related to Peavy's agent, do they really have to keep Axelrod around after Peavy and his agent are gone?
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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by Cream1953 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:31 am

    I seriously HATE standing pat but, in the White Sox instance, it may be the smartest thing to do under the circumstances. Everybody on this board pretty much knew that this year's team was going to blow. Everybody on this board also knew that the team was stuck with Kenny Williams' fucked-up contracts that were going to take time to get off the books. Nobody else wants to pay for the White Sox's garbage. After NEXT year, some of these losers are off the books and the White Sox have a little more capital to operate with and should be in a better position to start rebuilding. Nobody said this was going to be painless and people had a fairly good idea of what we were in for. My concern about Peavy is that he's prone injuries but, when he's healthy, he's an asset and not a liability. In my opiniion this team has more pressing concerns than simply unloading him.
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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by Nomads44 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:59 am

    MGJOHNSON wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:
    alohafri wrote:I read where the Sox are insisting that anyone who takes Peavy also takes over his entire contract, the Sox will pay nothing. I guess that's one way to tell the fans "hey, we tried."

     I saw tonight when I got home from a Cards/Cubs minor league game in Peoria that the Cards Carlos Martinez and Kolten Wong were mentioned again by Jim Bowden (ESPN) for Alexei and Jake Peavy.  To get those two, I'd be happy to pay much of the freight for those two.  You get two very possible future studs cheap for years to come for the cost we were stuck with for next year anyway.  Why insist someone else pay for our own mistakes.

    Jim, I just took a look at Baseball America Prospect Handbook for 2008.  Out of the 30 major league teams there were 150 prospects that rated within  the top 5 for each team (30x5=150).  Out of those 150, I count 53 whom I would consider decent major league players today.  Most failed.  Only a little over a third made it and stuck around to become productive major leaguers, although many had brief "cups of coffee" in the big leagues like Lars Anderson.  What I'm getting to is if the Sox pick up 2 highly rated prospects from a team for Peavy and Ramirez, they would be fortunate that one of those two prospects 5 years from now would be a productive major leaguer, especially considering that the Sox track record at evaluating unproven talent is not that great (unless they are assembling a potential semi-pro football team).


    Fair enough, Mart.  One has to hope you get at least one success out of such a deal.  But I think you gotta keep trying to find the best ones.  The fact that St. Louis would not want to move them tells me they have strong value.  And theirs and Pittsburgh track records with their minor league players is good of late.

    Sizemore, Phillips and Lee all came for Colon iirc.  What if the same 53 out of 150 concerns had kaboshed that deal?  And if you could remember your state of mind back in 2008, how many of those that YOU had good feelings about came through?  Seems each year some of the lower half of the BBA Top 100 come through as pleasant surprises.

    You cannot think you are trading for Hall of Famers, but you can think you are trading for upgrades to your current club, or the one you will have in the very near future.  If we were looking good for next year, fine, keep Peavy.  I think the next two years are going to be even bleaker than I felt this one was going to be, and I had pretty low expectations for this one.  Will we lose 100 in the next two years?  Too early to say, but it appears we will be in the bottom two of the division without some really positive changes.  Minnesota has three prospects that will be arriving in the next year or two with huge potential.

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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by MGJOHNSON on Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:31 am

    Nomads44 wrote:Fair enough, Mart.  One has to hope you get at least one success out of such a deal.  But I think you gotta keep trying to find the best ones.  The fact that St. Louis would not want to move them tells me they have strong value.  And theirs and Pittsburgh track records with their minor league players is good of late.

    Sizemore, Phillips and Lee all came for Colon iirc.  What if the same 53 out of 150 concerns had kaboshed that deal?  And if you could remember your state of mind back in 2008, how many of those that YOU had good feelings about came through?  Seems each year some of the lower half of the BBA Top 100 come through as pleasant surprises.

    You cannot think you are trading for Hall of Famers, but you can think you are trading for upgrades to your current club, or the one you will have in the very near future.  If we were looking good for next year, fine, keep Peavy.  I think the next two years are going to be even bleaker than I felt this one was going to be, and I had pretty low expectations for this one.  Will we lose 100 in the next two years?  Too early to say, but it appears we will be in the bottom two of the division without some really positive changes.  Minnesota has three prospects that will be arriving in the next year or two with huge potential.

    My own feeling right now, Jim, is that unproven prospects are being overvalued.  I'd like to see the Sox "clean house", but not in this market - unless they trade for proven major leaguers rather than overpriced prospects.  For example, I read somewhere that Texas might be interested in Peavy.  I don't know why since Alexi Ogando recently came off the DL and the Rangers expect both Colby Lewis and Matt Harrison to be back shortly.  Still, if the Sox could pull off a deal where they might get a young experienced player like Ogando for Peavy, I'd say great -- but I doubt if Texas is dumb enough to make that trade straight up.  Maybe the Sox could add one of their own "top prospects" to make such a deal happen.  But then there seems to be the problem that everybody else's top prospects are overvalued while the White Sox top prospects aren't.  Is anyone in need of a backsliding back-flipper who can evade a defensive tackle? Sad
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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:19 pm

     My concern about Peavy is that he's prone injuries but, when he's healthy, he's an asset and not a liability. In my opiniion this team has more pressing concerns than simply unloading him.>>
    At this point, Peavy is the one of the most desirable trading chip the Sox have simply because almost all contenders can use a proven vet starter for the stretch run and playoffs.  At  $ 14.5 mil for 2014 Peavy is priced right IF he could stay healthy.  Therein lies the rub, as you note.  It makes sense for a contender to gamble on the remaining $ 20 mil of Peavy's contract because he could help them win this year and/or next.
    For a non-contender like the Sox it makes ZERO sense to take the risk of him pulling or yanking something again.  Every time he takes the mound in a Sox uniform, Sox run that risk.  In my mind, it is an absolutely necessity to trade Peavy before his next start and the July 31 deadline.  Sox have shopped for the best offer and they should get the best prospect they can, even if it means paying a bit of his salary.  To ask another club to shoulder his entire contract PLUS give Sox a Grade A level prospect may be a bit too much.  After smoke clears, it would be foolish for Sox to end up stuck with Peavy's contract because they were asking too much in return. 

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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by rmapasad on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:15 pm

    < Sizemore, Phillips and Lee all came for Colon iirc.  What if the same 53 out of 150 concerns had kaboshed that deal?  And if you could remember your state of mind back in 2008, how many of those that YOU had good feelings about came through?  Seems each year some of the lower half of the BBA Top 100 come through as pleasant surprises.>>

    As you point out, Jim, never know what kind of prospects can come from trading a vet starter, although GM's have learned how to value their prospects much more in last 5 years.  It's getting rarer to see deals like the Colon anymore. 
    Agree that you can't let the possibility of a bust be a concern about trading for prospects. It's a trial and error process and club
    s have to kiss their fair share of frogs in the process.  Look at Oakland.  They went through a 5 yr dry spell ('07-'11) before they finally got back into contention last year. Beane has found a way to do it again - put together a contender with his prospects plus trading his vets for other team's prospects.  He never gets too attached to any player either, which is why you don't see long-term big contracts on that roster that he's trying to get rid of.  If he picks up older vets, it's usually short-term and cheap like he did Frank Thomas, Piazza, and lately Bartolo Colon.  If anything, he can be criticized for trading away younger guys too quickly.  Imagine what that team would be like now if he hadn';t traded away Gio Gonzalez or Carlos Gonzalez. 

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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by Guest on Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:41 pm

    sox55 wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:
    alohafri wrote:I read where the Sox are insisting that anyone who takes Peavy also takes over his entire contract, the Sox will pay nothing. I guess that's one way to tell the fans "hey, we tried."

     I saw tonight when I got home from a Cards/Cubs minor league game in Peoria that the Cards Carlos Martinez and Kolten Wong were mentioned again by Jim Bowden (ESPN) for Alexei and Jake Peavy.  To get those two, I'd be happy to pay much of the freight for those two.  You get two very possible future studs cheap for years to come for the cost we were stuck with for next year anyway.  Why insist someone else pay for our own mistakes.
    If a team will not overpay for proven starter like Peavy,then the Sox SHOULD keep him for next season and re-tool the team around the starting pitching. The Sox are in the driver's seat with Peavy and they should NOT sell low.


    Exactly John!!!!!!

    With Peavy, they got one of the better rotations in baseball. If the defense bounces back, they are a hitter away

    Laugh all you want haters, but I heard all this chicken little crap in 207 and 2009 and 2011 just to see the Sox come roaring back the next year. No reason 2014 won't be any different
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    Re: Peavy is staying

    Post by jaywit on Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:40 pm

    tHe SicKo FANt wrote:
    sox55 wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:
    alohafri wrote:I read where the Sox are insisting that anyone who takes Peavy also takes over his entire contract, the Sox will pay nothing. I guess that's one way to tell the fans "hey, we tried."

     I saw tonight when I got home from a Cards/Cubs minor league game in Peoria that the Cards Carlos Martinez and Kolten Wong were mentioned again by Jim Bowden (ESPN) for Alexei and Jake Peavy.  To get those two, I'd be happy to pay much of the freight for those two.  You get two very possible future studs cheap for years to come for the cost we were stuck with for next year anyway.  Why insist someone else pay for our own mistakes.
    If a team will not overpay for proven starter like Peavy,then the Sox SHOULD keep him for next season and re-tool the team around the starting pitching. The Sox are in the driver's seat with Peavy and they should NOT sell low.


    Exactly John!!!!!!

    With Peavy, they got one of the better rotations in baseball.  If the defense bounces back, they are a hitter away

    Laugh all you want haters, but I heard all this chicken little crap in 207 and 2009 and 2011 just to see the Sox come roaring back the next year.  No reason 2014 won't be any different

     They're a Stan Musial away from 3rd place.  They're a Stan Musial and Ted Williams away from 2nd place.  They're a Stan Musial, Ted Williams, and Willie Mays away from a pennant.

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