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    Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

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    Nomads44
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    Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Nomads44 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:02 pm

    How many others will join him soon?
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:02 pm

    Nomads44 wrote:How many others will join him soon?

     Several, I suspect.
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Cream1953 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:47 pm

    How many others will join him soon?

    ***********************************************************************************
    I'm hoping maybe 95% of the White Sox roster?? How about throwing in Reinsdorf and Williams just for good measure?

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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by frank bonifacic on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:42 pm

    U
    Cream1953 wrote:How many others will join him soon?

    ***********************************************************************************
    I'm hoping maybe 95% of the White Sox roster?? How about throwing in Reinsdorf and Williams just for good measure?

    ***how sad would that be? On PEDs and this shitty!!!
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    alohafri
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:58 pm

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    Nomads44 wrote:How many others will join him soon?

     Several, I suspect.

    Am I wrong or did Braun admit that he lied to avoid his suspension last year? If that's the case, this is unrelated to the suspensions that are supposed to be coming down the pike.
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by chisoxkid on Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:30 pm

    frank bonifacic wrote:U
    Cream1953 wrote:How many others will join him soon?

    ***********************************************************************************
    I'm hoping maybe 95% of the White Sox roster?? How about throwing in Reinsdorf and Williams just for good measure?

    ***how sad would that be? On PEDs and this shitty!!!

    Logan Morrison's quote of the day:
    "You know we're clean.  We haven't scored a run in 37 innings."
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    Soxillinirob
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:45 pm

    alohafri wrote:

    Am I wrong or did Braun admit that he lied to avoid his suspension last year? If that's the case, this is unrelated to the suspensions that are supposed to be coming down the pike.

     I didn't gather that it was an outright admission of a prior lie, but it was pretty clear he was loosely admitting that perhaps he'd made "some mistakes."
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by alohafri on Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:18 am



    Now there is talk that people want to strip Braun of his MVP and giving it to Matt Kent. If they start doing that, then a switch of Giambi's 2000 MVP to Frank Thomas should be next.

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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by jaywit on Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:07 pm

    alohafri wrote:

    Now there is talk that people want to strip Braun of his MVP and giving it to Matt Kent. If they start doing that, then a switch of Giambi's 2000 MVP to Frank Thomas should be next.


     I've often wondered what kind of sick numbers would Frank put up if he took PEDs.  He could very easily be up there with or beyond the 70 homer cheaters club....and bat .350 while doing it.
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Cream1953 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:00 pm

    Maybe I'm being clueless here and in no way am I defending performance-enhancing drugs but I roll my eyes a bit at some of the notions that certain players would have seen their stats skyrocket if they would have stuck a needle in their ass. No doubt a player's power numbers would very likely be enhanced but I fail to see how all of the dope in the world improves hand/eye coordination when it comes to making proper contact with the baseball or the ability to to be patient at the plate or take the ball to the opposite field. You STILL have to be able to hit the baseball to begin with. I can see where PEDS can make you a "stronger" hitter but an overall "better" hitter? I don't get that. In my opinion, Frank's greatest attributes were his great eye, patience at the plate and willingness to hit a single instead of constantly swinging for the fences. What do PEDS have to do with that? I could see where Frank's power numbers might have jumped but this might also have been to the overall detriment of his batting average as he might have been more prone to swing for the home run more often instead of focusing on just getting on base. Would PEDS make Oaf a better "hitter"?? LOL....yeah right.
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by jaywit on Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:09 am

    Cream1953 wrote:Maybe I'm being clueless here and in no way am I defending performance-enhancing drugs but I roll my eyes a bit at some of the notions that certain players would have seen their stats skyrocket if they would have stuck a needle in their ass. No doubt a player's power numbers would very likely be enhanced but I fail to see how all of the dope in the world improves hand/eye coordination when it comes to making proper contact with the baseball or the ability to to be patient at the plate or take the ball to the opposite field. You STILL have to be able to hit the baseball to begin with. I can see where PEDS can make you a "stronger" hitter but an overall "better" hitter? I don't get that. In my opinion, Frank's greatest attributes were his great eye, patience at the plate and willingness to hit a single instead of constantly swinging for the fences. What do PEDS have to do with that? I could see where Frank's power numbers might have jumped but this might also have been to the overall detriment of his batting average as he might have been more prone to swing for the home run more often instead of focusing on just getting on base. Would PEDS make Oaf a better "hitter"?? LOL....yeah right.

     Grounders are hit harder with more power, thus more getting through the holes, thus a higher BA.  Line drives, same thing.  Fly balls, more are homers leads to higher BA.  Why's that difficult to believe?  Also, I don't buy that hand/eye coordination isn't improved with PEDs.  With improved muscle strength you'd have better ability to move your hands/arms to where you're eyes/brain is directing.  Frank would have put up numbers equal or beyond Bonds and McGwire. 
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:26 am

    Why's that difficult to believe? 
    ************************************************************************

    Because if you're for shit as a hitter to begin with what difference does it make how strong you are? I agreed that power numbers would be up...that makes sense. But power numbers and elevated batting average don't necessarily go hand in hand. Ask Oaf. PEDS wouldn't stop a bad hitter from swinging at bad pitches. Would it make Alexie Ramirez a better bunter? I doubt it. It also stands to reason that if a player is carrying more bulk and weight than what they're used to carrying  it might even slow down bat speed for some of them.  

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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by frank bonifacic on Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:38 am

    Cream1953 wrote:Why's that difficult to believe? 
    ************************************************************************

    Because if you're for shit as a hitter to begin with what difference does it make how strong you are? I agreed that power numbers would be up...that makes sense. But power numbers and elevated batting average don't necessarily go hand in hand. Ask Oaf. PEDS wouldn't stop a bad hitter from swinging at bad pitches. Would it make Alexie Ramirez a better bunter? I doubt it. It also stands to reason that if a player is carrying more bulk and weight than what they're used to carrying  it might even slow down bat speed for some of them.

      ******
    It doesn't make a shitty hitter into a good one. Among things it does do is speed recovery from injury and allow longer and more intense workouts which improve the player, plus increased strength and muscle.
    Not sure who it was but a analyst (ex ballplayer, believe pitcher) put it succinctly " It makes fair players good, good players great and  great players hall of famers" 

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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by jaywit on Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:18 am

    Cream1953 wrote:Why's that difficult to believe? 
    ************************************************************************

    Because if you're for shit as a hitter to begin with what difference does it make how strong you are? I agreed that power numbers would be up...that makes sense. But power numbers and elevated batting average don't necessarily go hand in hand. Ask Oaf. PEDS wouldn't stop a bad hitter from swinging at bad pitches. Would it make Alexie Ramirez a better bunter? I doubt it. It also stands to reason that if a player is carrying more bulk and weight than what they're used to carrying  it might even slow down bat speed for some of them.  

     First of all, I'm talking Frank, nobody else.  I'm saying Frank would likely have Bonds type numbers had he taken PEDs.  Whether or not what I'm saying about Frank could be transmissable to other, far lesser players is quite debatable.  Second, that extra "bulk" and "weight" is muscle, not flab.  Bat speed would improve with stronger and bigger muscle tissue.
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:56 am

    This is not baseball and PEDS related but I think my basic argument concerning bulk and muscle applies when it comes to speed and ability nonetheless. Many, many years ago I recall seeing on TV a high school basketball player in the Illinois High School Tournament by the name of Jay Shidler. He was from Lawrenceville. Man could this kid shoot the basketball...unlike anyone I've ever seen before save for perhaps the great Purdue basketball player Rick Mount. During the tourney he averaged I think around 40 points a game...seems he set records for scoring that might still stand to this day. He was just an average built guard of maybe around 6'2" and wasn't blazing fast...but he had a jaw droppingly quick release of the ball and his shots usually hit nothing but net as he fired from all over the floor. They called him the "Blonde Bomber".

    Of course, as usual, a player of his special talents didn't even come close to attending Illinois and he ended up playing for Kentucky after I'm sure Joe B. Hall shoved a wad of cash into his pocket. Because I was so impressed with Shidler I kept an eye on Kentucky and would catch a game of theirs on the telly whenever I could. A year or so later I finally saw Shidler in a Kentucky uniform and the Kentucky staff had obviously put him on a weight program...and it really fucked up his game!! I barely recognized him. He went from being this skinny kind of fast kid into this bulked-up and ripped college player. He wasn't a speed burner to begin with but he had obviously lost a step and that beautiful smooth shot of his had all but disappeared as he fired up brick after brick. Now the kid was STILL good enough to start for Kentucky and his senior year they won the national championship...but Shidler wasn't anything near the player he was in high school and I couldn't help but wonder if the additional "muscle" had actually, in this instance, ruined his game.

    I'm against PEDS and all for the punishments being handed down. Indeed, I think they are STILL pussyfooting around with these penalties and sanctions. And yes, it certainly HAS made some players better than what they should have been...no argument from me. But my whole point is that addtional muscle and strength doesn't always translate into making someone a better player in a finesse sport like baseball and basketball.

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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Guest on Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:51 am

    Listen to the parole officer explain the SCIENCE behind PEDS's

    LMAO!!!!!

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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by winstonage on Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:56 am

    Cream1953 wrote:This is not baseball and PEDS related but I think my basic argument concerning bulk and muscle applies when it comes to speed and ability nonetheless. Many, many years ago I recall seeing on TV a high school basketball player in the Illinois High School Tournament by the name of Jay Shidler. He was from Lawrenceville. Man could this kid shoot the basketball...unlike anyone I've ever seen before save for perhaps the great Purdue basketball player Rick Mount. During the tourney he averaged I think around 40 points a game...seems he set records for scoring that might still stand to this day. He was just an average built guard of maybe around 6'2" and wasn't blazing fast...but he had a jaw droppingly quick release of the ball and his shots usually hit nothing but net as he fired from all over the floor. They called him the "Blonde Bomber".

    Of course, as usual, a player of his special talents didn't even come close to attending Illinois and he ended up playing for Kentucky after I'm sure Joe B. Hall shoved a wad of cash into his pocket. Because I was so impressed with Shidler I kept an eye on Kentucky and would catch a game of theirs on the telly whenever I could. A year or so later I finally saw Shidler in a Kentucky uniform and the Kentucky staff had obviously put him on a weight program...and it really fucked up his game!! I barely recognized him. He went from being this skinny kind of fast kid into this bulked-up and ripped college player. He wasn't a speed burner to begin with but he had obviously lost a step and that beautiful smooth shot of his had all but disappeared as he fired up brick after brick. Now the kid was STILL good enough to start for Kentucky and his senior year they won the national championship...but Shidler wasn't anything near the player he was in high school and I couldn't help but wonder if the additional "muscle" had actually, in this instance, ruined his game.

    I'm against PEDS and all for the punishments being handed down. Indeed, I think they are STILL pussyfooting around with these penalties and sanctions. And yes, it certainly HAS made some players better than what they should have been...no argument from me. But my whole point is that addtional muscle and strength doesn't always translate into making someone a better player in a finesse sport like baseball and basketball.

    The point is Cream, PEDS won't make a piss poor player into a star, but a guy with a lot of talent can become a super star. Raffie Palmero was a good player before the juice. He went from a 275 hitterr to a 320 hitter besides going from 15 homers to 40.
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by jaywit on Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:59 am

    winstonage wrote:
    Cream1953 wrote:This is not baseball and PEDS related but I think my basic argument concerning bulk and muscle applies when it comes to speed and ability nonetheless. Many, many years ago I recall seeing on TV a high school basketball player in the Illinois High School Tournament by the name of Jay Shidler. He was from Lawrenceville. Man could this kid shoot the basketball...unlike anyone I've ever seen before save for perhaps the great Purdue basketball player Rick Mount. During the tourney he averaged I think around 40 points a game...seems he set records for scoring that might still stand to this day. He was just an average built guard of maybe around 6'2" and wasn't blazing fast...but he had a jaw droppingly quick release of the ball and his shots usually hit nothing but net as he fired from all over the floor. They called him the "Blonde Bomber".

    Of course, as usual, a player of his special talents didn't even come close to attending Illinois and he ended up playing for Kentucky after I'm sure Joe B. Hall shoved a wad of cash into his pocket. Because I was so impressed with Shidler I kept an eye on Kentucky and would catch a game of theirs on the telly whenever I could. A year or so later I finally saw Shidler in a Kentucky uniform and the Kentucky staff had obviously put him on a weight program...and it really fucked up his game!! I barely recognized him. He went from being this skinny kind of fast kid into this bulked-up and ripped college player. He wasn't a speed burner to begin with but he had obviously lost a step and that beautiful smooth shot of his had all but disappeared as he fired up brick after brick. Now the kid was STILL good enough to start for Kentucky and his senior year they won the national championship...but Shidler wasn't anything near the player he was in high school and I couldn't help but wonder if the additional "muscle" had actually, in this instance, ruined his game.

    I'm against PEDS and all for the punishments being handed down. Indeed, I think they are STILL pussyfooting around with these penalties and sanctions. And yes, it certainly HAS made some players better than what they should have been...no argument from me. But my whole point is that addtional muscle and strength doesn't always translate into making someone a better player in a finesse sport like baseball and basketball.

    The point is Cream, PEDS won't make a piss poor player into a star, but a guy with a lot of talent can become a super star. Raffie Palmero was a good player before the juice. He went from a 275 hitterr to a 320 hitter besides going from 15 homers to 40.

     Bret Boone listed at 5' 10", 180# wasn't piss poor but was below average and then became a triple crown threat hitting machine while on the juice.

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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by frank bonifacic on Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:01 pm

    THE KARK wrote:Listen to the parole officer explain the SCIENCE behind PEDS's

    LMAO!!!!!
    Was just thinking to myself in the other thread where Cream was dissing carbon dating, that he is spending entirely too much time arguing with Kark that he is starting to sound like him!!
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by jaywit on Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:02 pm

    Cream1953 wrote:This is not baseball and PEDS related but I think my basic argument concerning bulk and muscle applies when it comes to speed and ability nonetheless. Many, many years ago I recall seeing on TV a high school basketball player in the Illinois High School Tournament by the name of Jay Shidler. He was from Lawrenceville. Man could this kid shoot the basketball...unlike anyone I've ever seen before save for perhaps the great Purdue basketball player Rick Mount. During the tourney he averaged I think around 40 points a game...seems he set records for scoring that might still stand to this day. He was just an average built guard of maybe around 6'2" and wasn't blazing fast...but he had a jaw droppingly quick release of the ball and his shots usually hit nothing but net as he fired from all over the floor. They called him the "Blonde Bomber".

    Of course, as usual, a player of his special talents didn't even come close to attending Illinois and he ended up playing for Kentucky after I'm sure Joe B. Hall shoved a wad of cash into his pocket. Because I was so impressed with Shidler I kept an eye on Kentucky and would catch a game of theirs on the telly whenever I could. A year or so later I finally saw Shidler in a Kentucky uniform and the Kentucky staff had obviously put him on a weight program...and it really fucked up his game!! I barely recognized him. He went from being this skinny kind of fast kid into this bulked-up and ripped college player. He wasn't a speed burner to begin with but he had obviously lost a step and that beautiful smooth shot of his had all but disappeared as he fired up brick after brick. Now the kid was STILL good enough to start for Kentucky and his senior year they won the national championship...but Shidler wasn't anything near the player he was in high school and I couldn't help but wonder if the additional "muscle" had actually, in this instance, ruined his game.

    I'm against PEDS and all for the punishments being handed down. Indeed, I think they are STILL pussyfooting around with these penalties and sanctions. And yes, it certainly HAS made some players better than what they should have been...no argument from me. But my whole point is that addtional muscle and strength doesn't always translate into making someone a better player in a finesse sport like baseball and basketball.

     No argument regarding basketball and PEDs. 

     Basketball gargles my balls, though.  Boring shit.
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    Cream1953
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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Cream1953 on Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:32 pm

    Basketball gargles my balls,

    *************************************************************************
    Balls can gargle? Shocked Who knew? tongue 

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    Re: Braun Gaun for the year - starting to hit the fan

    Post by Guest on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:27 pm

    frank bonifacic wrote:
    THE KARK wrote:Listen to the parole officer explain the SCIENCE behind PEDS's

    LMAO!!!!!
    Was just thinking to myself in the other thread where Cream was dissing carbon dating, that he is spending entirely too much time arguing with Kark that he is starting to sound like him!!


    The KARK has never dissed legitimate science Frank

    But your are sounding a lot like CReam. Attack evrything the KARK says without trying to understand what the KARK is saying

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