Nomadsfest Sox Fans

A forum for the old AOL board Sox fans and others.


    Cashing in the Chips

    Share

    Guest
    Guest

    Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:59 pm

    In today's Sun Times, it is mention that if the Sox were to cash in their chips, then kiss Conteras, Dye, Dotel, and maybe even Bobby Jenks good bye. The article then states that Buehrle will remain in a Sox uniform.

    The article ignored Konerko and Podsednik. Although another article in today's times mentions the dilema of Pods Sox future.

    The theory appears to be, as long as the Sox are in it, they will try to win it. Or at least NOT white flag all their vets in a contract year.

    For the KARK, it's difficult to form an opinion without any specific details. Such as, what would a Conteras or a Dye or a Dotel bring in a trade? If the answer is not much, is it worth trading them just to dump 2 months worth of their salaries. And what about the SPod. If there ever was a buy low, sell high opportinity, this is it. Or do you really think the Sox can back into the playoffs. Or do you really think Pods can remain productive next year and the year after that when the 2009 Barons s/b ready to win in Chicago.

    One thing I am certain about. I'd be VERY VERY VERY hesitant to trade Bobby Jenks or any top prospect

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:54 pm

    THE KARK wrote:
    For the KARK, it's difficult to form an opinion without any specific details. Such as, what would a Conteras or a Dye or a Dotel bring in a trade? If the answer is not much, is it worth trading them just to dump 2 months worth of their salaries. And what about the SPod. If there ever was a buy low, sell high opportinity, this is it. Or do you really think the Sox can back into the playoffs. Or do you really think Pods can remain productive next year and the year after that when the 2009 Barons s/b ready to win in Chicago.

    One thing I am certain about. I'd be VERY VERY VERY hesitant to trade Bobby Jenks or any top prospect

    First off, when is it difficult for the Kark to form an opinion??? Who are you REALLY?....anyway, no team is going to trade for Pods, and if they do, you get an A ball player who will never make it. Same for Contreras and Dotel. Now Dye might, might bring you a AA player who has a chance if you can find a team one hitter short of a championship. Like a Minnesota, or maybe the Mets, ..but more likely, an AL team where he can DH. I doubt anyone wants Konerko b/c of where he plays...1b...not many challenging teams are weak at first base..so again, if they need a DH...great. I don't think the Sox trade anyone except scrap ..and maybe get scrap back ...I don't think there will be a fire sale.
    avatar
    alohafri
    Pope Malort I

    Posts : 7089
    Join date : 2009-04-03
    Age : 50
    Location : Southwest Suburbs

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by alohafri on Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:26 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:
    First off, when is it difficult for the Kark to form an opinion??? Who are you REALLY?....anyway, no team is going to trade for Pods, and if they do, you get an A ball player who will never make it. Same for Contreras and Dotel. Now Dye might, might bring you a AA player who has a chance if you can find a team one hitter short of a championship. Like a Minnesota, or maybe the Mets, ..but more likely, an AL team where he can DH. I doubt anyone wants Konerko b/c of where he plays...1b...not many challenging teams are weak at first base..so again, if they need a DH...great. I don't think the Sox trade anyone except scrap ..and maybe get scrap back ...I don't think there will be a fire sale.

    This is exactly what I was thinking. You trade your vets at the deadline in hopes to get better for the future, not just for a salary dump. If they are going to trade Dye, Contreras, Dotel, or Jenks for me, Kark, Bobby, or Rob, that makes the team better never. At least the White Flag trade brought us some guys who became a part of some decent teams.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:25 pm

    Chi-kid wrote:
    THE KARK wrote:
    For the KARK, it's difficult to form an opinion without any specific details. Such as, what would a Conteras or a Dye or a Dotel bring in a trade? If the answer is not much, is it worth trading them just to dump 2 months worth of their salaries. And what about the SPod. If there ever was a buy low, sell high opportinity, this is it. Or do you really think the Sox can back into the playoffs. Or do you really think Pods can remain productive next year and the year after that when the 2009 Barons s/b ready to win in Chicago.

    One thing I am certain about. I'd be VERY VERY VERY hesitant to trade Bobby Jenks or any top prospect

    First off, when is it difficult for the Kark to form an opinion??? Who are you REALLY?....anyway, no team is going to trade for Pods, and if they do, you get an A ball player who will never make it. Same for Contreras and Dotel. Now Dye might, might bring you a AA player who has a chance if you can find a team one hitter short of a championship. Like a Minnesota, or maybe the Mets, ..but more likely, an AL team where he can DH. I doubt anyone wants Konerko b/c of where he plays...1b...not many challenging teams are weak at first base..so again, if they need a DH...great. I don't think the Sox trade anyone except scrap ..and maybe get scrap back ...I don't think there will be a fire sale.

    Unlike politics, I don't know everything about baseball. Just 90% ;-)

    You are probably right about the fire sale, but I think you might be selling Dotel a little short. GM's don't evaluate talent the same way fans do. And us Sox fans tend to be harsh on our own talent. I think Dotel could land us a decent prospect. Especially if the Sox sweeten the deal.

    As for scrap for scrap, I wonder what Anderson or Fields or one of the young duds at 2B could bring?

    Finally, dumping salary for the sake of dumping salary might be wise thing to do in the case of Conteras. Assuming his little hot streak isn't over
    avatar
    Soxillinirob
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 7299
    Join date : 2009-04-05
    Age : 51
    Location : St. Charles, IL

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Soxillinirob on Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:56 pm

    THE KARK wrote:
    You are probably right about the fire sale, but I think you might be selling Dotel a little short. GM's don't evaluate talent the same way fans do. And us Sox fans tend to be harsh on our own talent. I think Dotel could land us a decent prospect. Especially if the Sox sweeten the deal.

    As for scrap for scrap, I wonder what Anderson or Fields or one of the young duds at 2B could bring?

    Finally, dumping salary for the sake of dumping salary might be wise thing to do in the case of Conteras. Assuming his little hot streak isn't over

    I also think Dotel could bring something. Not a stud, but something of value, especially if packaged with someone else. If Contreras can have a few more solid starts in a row, then something decent could be gained if we eat his prorated salary. Thornton should have significant value if we want to trade the guy. If we can get anything more than a bag of chips for Fields or Getz, I'd stick them on the next train out of here. I'd be fine using Nix over Getz. They bring similar abilities with the bat, but Nix is 10 times the defensive player. Considering how much better Nix is defensively, I can't imagine why he's not getting more playing time. What's wrong with a defensive wizard at 2B who has a bit of thunder in his bat?

    As ridiculous as I sound saying it, this suck ass division in winnable, and I hate the idea of not trying to win it if it's there for the taking, especially after watching the Cardinals win a WS in an 83 win season.
    avatar
    sox55
    Roof Shot

    Posts : 1869
    Join date : 2009-04-05
    Age : 61
    Location : Pleasant Prairie , WI

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by sox55 on Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:54 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    THE KARK wrote:
    You are probably right about the fire sale, but I think you might be selling Dotel a little short. GM's don't evaluate talent the same way fans do. And us Sox fans tend to be harsh on our own talent. I think Dotel could land us a decent prospect. Especially if the Sox sweeten the deal.

    As for scrap for scrap, I wonder what Anderson or Fields or one of the young duds at 2B could bring?

    Finally, dumping salary for the sake of dumping salary might be wise thing to do in the case of Conteras. Assuming his little hot streak isn't over

    I also think Dotel could bring something. Not a stud, but something of value, especially if packaged with someone else. If Contreras can have a few more solid starts in a row, then something decent could be gained if we eat his prorated salary. Thornton should have significant value if we want to trade the guy. If we can get anything more than a bag of chips for Fields or Getz, I'd stick them on the next train out of here. I'd be fine using Nix over Getz. They bring similar abilities with the bat, but Nix is 10 times the defensive player. Considering how much better Nix is defensively, I can't imagine why he's not getting more playing time. What's wrong with a defensive wizard at 2B who has a bit of thunder in his bat?

    As ridiculous as I sound saying it, this suck ass division in winnable, and I hate the idea of not trying to win it if it's there for the taking, especially after watching the Cardinals win a WS in an 83 win season.

    Win 5 of the next 6 or better yet ALL 6 and then we can talk about winning this division. If the opposite happens, count on a fire-sale. This is the week that Was.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:35 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    As ridiculous as I sound saying it, this suck ass division in winnable, and I hate the idea of not trying to win it if it's there for the taking, especially after watching the Cardinals win a WS in an 83 win season.

    HOOTERVILLE
    FANBOY
    REINSDORF POOCH!!!!!!!

    I WANT A REAL TEAM WITH A REAL FARM THAT WINS THE RIGHT WAY!!!!!!!!

    NOW SOMEBODY GIVE ME A CIGAR SO I CAN CRAWL BACKINTO MY BOTTLE OF JACK
    avatar
    Soxillinirob
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 7299
    Join date : 2009-04-05
    Age : 51
    Location : St. Charles, IL

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Soxillinirob on Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:54 am

    THE KARK wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:
    As ridiculous as I sound saying it, this suck ass division in winnable, and I hate the idea of not trying to win it if it's there for the taking, especially after watching the Cardinals win a WS in an 83 win season.

    HOOTERVILLE
    FANBOY
    REINSDORF POOCH!!!!!!!

    I WANT A REAL TEAM WITH A REAL FARM THAT WINS THE RIGHT WAY!!!!!!!!

    NOW SOMEBODY GIVE ME A CIGAR SO I CAN CRAWL BACKINTO MY BOTTLE OF JACK

    I admit, it's embarrassing to even point out what I state above. It's a sad state of affairs in this division. A part of me wants for the Tigers or Twins to just pull away and win the division in a route, so that the Sox can get on with revamping this club. Who's not a fan of a productive farm system? It gets tiring to watch this club try finding diamonds in the rough year after year. I'll give Kenny credit...he's pretty good at that, but it's no way to go about having long term success.
    avatar
    TeleFrank
    Silent Hot Dog Vendor

    Posts : 1045
    Join date : 2009-04-05
    Location : Portage Park

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by TeleFrank on Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:03 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:I'll give Kenny credit...he's pretty good at that, but it's no way to go about having long term success.

    First off the object of all sports is to win the Championship. But only one team can do that every year. So are the rest of the teams having unsuccessful years? Well by definition yes, no championship bad year. But is that really the truth? Is a team that is in a position to win the championship unsuccessful?

    I think that if you asked around MLB the Sox would be considered a successful team. That of course is a totally different mindset than the fans would have. But to fellow MLBers the Sox pay the bills, get enough asses in the seats and are competitive. Fan of course wants 20 or 30 WS champs in a row. A nice but totally insane wish. One that could never happen with the way the players are paid now.

    Knowing I am setting myself up I happen to think the Sox under Williams have been pretty successful. No they haven't won multiple WS's. But they have been competitive for most of his years. I'm too lazy to look up the W-L records but the Sox have been a better team since his arrival. That is also without a open wallet from management. Have they fallen on their faces during his time? Yes of course I know that but you will also remember I am the creator of the Young Millionaires are the real blame theory.
    avatar
    Soxillinirob
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 7299
    Join date : 2009-04-05
    Age : 51
    Location : St. Charles, IL

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Soxillinirob on Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:36 am

    TeleFrank wrote:
    First off the object of all sports is to win the Championship. But only one team can do that every year. So are the rest of the teams having unsuccessful years? Well by definition yes, no championship bad year. But is that really the truth? Is a team that is in a position to win the championship unsuccessful?

    I think that if you asked around MLB the Sox would be considered a successful team. That of course is a totally different mindset than the fans would have. But to fellow MLBers the Sox pay the bills, get enough asses in the seats and are competitive. Fan of course wants 20 or 30 WS champs in a row. A nice but totally insane wish. One that could never happen with the way the players are paid now.

    Knowing I am setting myself up I happen to think the Sox under Williams have been pretty successful. No they haven't won multiple WS's. But they have been competitive for most of his years. I'm too lazy to look up the W-L records but the Sox have been a better team since his arrival. That is also without a open wallet from management. Have they fallen on their faces during his time? Yes of course I know that but you will also remember I am the creator of the Young Millionaires are the real blame theory.

    I agree 100%. By long term success, I'm referring to the years ahead. I, too, consider the Sox to have been a fairly successful team in this decade, despite only one title and an overall small smattering of playoff appearances. In retrospect, being in a playoff hunt each year is the sign of an overall successful team for me.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:44 am

    TeleFrank wrote:
    Soxillinirob wrote:I'll give Kenny credit...he's pretty good at that, but it's no way to go about having long term success.

    First off the object of all sports is to win the Championship. But only one team can do that every year. So are the rest of the teams having unsuccessful years? Well by definition yes, no championship bad year. But is that really the truth? Is a team that is in a position to win the championship unsuccessful?

    I think that if you asked around MLB the Sox would be considered a successful team. That of course is a totally different mindset than the fans would have. But to fellow MLBers the Sox pay the bills, get enough asses in the seats and are competitive. Fan of course wants 20 or 30 WS champs in a row. A nice but totally insane wish. One that could never happen with the way the players are paid now.

    Knowing I am setting myself up I happen to think the Sox under Williams have been pretty successful. No they haven't won multiple WS's. But they have been competitive for most of his years. I'm too lazy to look up the W-L records but the Sox have been a better team since his arrival. That is also without a open wallet from management. Have they fallen on their faces during his time? Yes of course I know that but you will also remember I am the creator of the Young Millionaires are the real blame theory.

    HOOTERVILLE
    FANBOY
    REINSDORF'S POOCH

    YOU SOUND JUST LIKE THAT RIGHTWING CRACKPOT ON THE AOL BOARD WHO CLAIMED THE WILLIAMS YEARS ARE THE SOX BEST YEARS OF OUT LIFETIME.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:48 am

    Soxillinirob wrote:
    TeleFrank wrote:
    First off the object of all sports is to win the Championship. But only one team can do that every year. So are the rest of the teams having unsuccessful years? Well by definition yes, no championship bad year. But is that really the truth? Is a team that is in a position to win the championship unsuccessful?

    I think that if you asked around MLB the Sox would be considered a successful team. That of course is a totally different mindset than the fans would have. But to fellow MLBers the Sox pay the bills, get enough asses in the seats and are competitive. Fan of course wants 20 or 30 WS champs in a row. A nice but totally insane wish. One that could never happen with the way the players are paid now.

    Knowing I am setting myself up I happen to think the Sox under Williams have been pretty successful. No they haven't won multiple WS's. But they have been competitive for most of his years. I'm too lazy to look up the W-L records but the Sox have been a better team since his arrival. That is also without a open wallet from management. Have they fallen on their faces during his time? Yes of course I know that but you will also remember I am the creator of the Young Millionaires are the real blame theory.

    I agree 100%. By long term success, I'm referring to the years ahead. I, too, consider the Sox to have been a fairly successful team in this decade, despite only one title and an overall small smattering of playoff appearances. In retrospect, being in a playoff hunt each year is the sign of an overall successful team for me.

    PLAY 500 AND WAIT FOR LIGHTNING IN BOTTLE!!!!!!!!!!

    YOU FANBOYS CAN'T HANDLE REAL SUCCESS!!!!!!

    1968
    1968
    1968
    avatar
    Cream1953
    Chairman Reinsdorf

    Posts : 6166
    Join date : 2009-04-05
    Age : 63
    Location : Elkhart, IN.

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Cream1953 on Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:10 pm

    Stop it Kark...you're cracking me up. For what it's worth here's my take. Forget the fire sale and go with what you got for the balance of the year. I hate how this fucking team plays and its inconsistency drives me nuts but this whole division sucks so it's not outside of the realm of possibility that the division might still be there for the taking and then, as Rob correctly points out with Cardinals, anything screwy could happen. Besides, I feel like, logically, what have we got to loose in the process? The season's already in the tank, if you want to look at it that way, and a fire sale isn't going to improve a damn thing in the short term. Instead, by playing the hand we already have there's always the possibility that a couple of these clowns might actually ratchet things up a notch in the second half and make themselves more attractive as trade bait over the winter. Take Contreras for example. A couple of good outings isn't going to make any teams stand in line for him at the present and take a chance on an aging pitcher coming back from injury. On the other hand, if he maintains his solid performance for the balance of the season there might actually be some post-season interest in him and we can get something of worth for him. In the meantime, we also let the kids play and see what we got. The bottom line is next year this team, for better or worse, is going to have a whole new look. Fine by me. In the meantime lets see how things wash out...standing pat another three months isn't going to make that much of a difference either way in the overall scheme of things.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:05 am

    Cream1953 wrote:Stop it Kark...you're cracking me up. For what it's worth here's my take. Forget the fire sale and go with what you got for the balance of the year. I hate how this fucking team plays and its inconsistency drives me nuts but this whole division sucks so it's not outside of the realm of possibility that the division might still be there for the taking and then, as Rob correctly points out with Cardinals, anything screwy could happen. Besides, I feel like, logically, what have we got to loose in the process? The season's already in the tank, if you want to look at it that way, and a fire sale isn't going to improve a damn thing in the short term. Instead, by playing the hand we already have there's always the possibility that a couple of these clowns might actually ratchet things up a notch in the second half and make themselves more attractive as trade bait over the winter. Take Contreras for example. A couple of good outings isn't going to make any teams stand in line for him at the present and take a chance on an aging pitcher coming back from injury. On the other hand, if he maintains his solid performance for the balance of the season there might actually be some post-season interest in him and we can get something of worth for him. In the meantime, we also let the kids play and see what we got. The bottom line is next year this team, for better or worse, is going to have a whole new look. Fine by me. In the meantime lets see how things wash out...standing pat another three months isn't going to make that much of a difference either way in the overall scheme of things.

    Again, it's difficult to form an opinion without knowing people's trade value and what vets are available to the Sox. I'd be incredibly hesitant to trade a top prospect. I doubt Brian Anderson and Josh Fields would land us the difference maker we need. Or at least a 3 month rental on a good starting infielder.

    As for the fire sale, it would save the team at least 10 mil in payroll and might net the sox a decent prospect or two. Currently the Sox are 4 games under 500. If they can't get to 500 in 30 days, I would most likely say cash in the chips

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:51 pm

    Again, it's difficult to form an opinion without knowing people's trade value and what vets are available to the Sox. I'd be incredibly hesitant to trade a top prospect. I doubt Brian Anderson and Josh Fields would land us the difference maker we need. Or at least a 3 month rental on a good starting infielder.

    As for the fire sale, it would save the team at least 10 mil in payroll and might net the sox a decent prospect or two. Currently the Sox are 4 games under 500. If they can't get to 500 in 30 days, I would most likely say cash in the chips[/quote]

    Even if the Sox win the division, does anyone really think they are good enough, and the odds good enough, to win a World Series? If the answer is "no", then even thinking about trading a good prospect is idiotic. In reality, if you can find a team who wants to dump a high priced good veteran b/c they are not going anywhere, you might get someone for Anderson and/or Fields. Provided the Sox pick up that players tab. And I agree with Kark, if it is felt that there is no chance to even win this division, then you trade everyone you can who you don't want for next year and get whatever you can get, and take the money saved and buy free agents also.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Guest on Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:44 am

    Chi-kid wrote:And I agree with Kark.[/b][/i]

    How do I cut and paste this into Blago's Cell ;-)

    More importantly, where are those smiley faced icons.

    6 HR's against the Dodgers!!!!!! Just like last year, the Sox run hot and cold. However this year's hot water heater appears to hold fewer gallons.

    The KARK also sees Brandon Allen is up in Charlotte. Those Baron fans must be cussing out Kenny Williams. He should have let all the kids kick some Southern League ass during this lost season.

    Speaking of Charlotte, has Frank Thomas been fitted for his Knights uniform yet?

    Sponsored content

    Re: Cashing in the Chips

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:52 am